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Ground Zero Mosque Should Not Be Built


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Believe what you will, but when the time comes about I certainly hope you are watching you and your families backs.

Those Christians and Muslims know exactly where their loyalties lie regardless of who they eat with. When the moment of truth comes about the Muslims will have no non-Muslim friends.


What is this "time" and "moment of truth"? Quite honestly, I trust my friends and my family. A few of those people include Muslims. I would trust the Muslims that fall into that category long before I would trust most militant "Christians" out there. I can't imagine that you have any credible evidence that there will be some sort of clandestine battle cry and all Muslims around the world, even those that seem to be normal citizens, will suddenly turn against everyone they know who isn't a Muslim and take everything by force. That sounds like the kind of lies their militant extremists tell about Christians.

Furthermore, we see in communities where people live, work and worship side by side that understanding is built. Not only is this common sense, but we can OBserve it happening in cities and towns across the country. People fear what they do not know. When people of different faiths and backgrounds live side by side, they work together, their children go to school together and they begin to interact within their community. That's how they learn that their stereotypes were incorrect and they become neighbors and maybe even friends. This isn't some utopian liberal ideal, this is what happens when people live together in communities. Building a mosque only furthers that goal.
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Well, that's the thing that I've been trying to say and ptwild has also been saying. This is very different from the 2 world wars or any other war we've fought for that matter. You can't treat it the same way. Naming our enemies takes some discernment and some intellectual work. If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck... just isn't going to work here.

Also, this isn't a monument to their victory. If it is they're doing a very poor jOB. I don't know if you've ever been to NYC, but I live there and I can tell you that 2 blocks can be a long way and there are lots of buildings and establishments between the mosque/community center and ground zero. For goodness sakes there are churches that are closer to ground zero than this building is. In lower Manhattan everything is very close together. Muslims are not building a shrine to a "victory." They are building a community center for people of Islamic faith who live and work in the area.


Before trying to defend muslims maybe you should learn what islam teaches... I mean really teaches..not this pc stuff that some muslims put out. It is a victory to them.

When I was living in chicago (well technically a suburb, bridgeview), I belonged to a small mosque that was looking to expand. I was lucky enough to get on the committee that was to choose the possible locations (not that i had any say, i was just there for the pc crowd). The first meeting it was discussed the 1 thing that was a must was that it had to be an old church that we bought. Why you ask.. because it would be thought of as a victory over the christians.. it would be looked at as the muslims shut down yet another place for the 'dirty christians' to practice their 'idolatry'.

In islam it is all about the victory... Theirs..not ours. Even the pc muslims... it is all about their victory..not ours.. .that is what needs to be kept in mind.

Do you think that if the roles were reversed... they would be debating amongst themselves as to whether or not to let us build a church...NO they would not be. The answer would be a flat out no without a debate.

I keep seeing the same question asked about if we stop muslims from practicing how long will it be before we as christians can't... wait... kids get kicked out of school now for praying or bringing a bible to school. In many schools kids can no longer say 'one nation under God' when saying the pledge... In many places of work you can't even pull your bible out and read it. In Dearborn, MI a christian cannot hand a christian tract to a muslim but yet a muslim can give you one on islam... Our right to practice has been slowly slipping away for years.

And as christians how can anyone sit and defend a group that is so anti christian. Witness to them and bring them to Christ.
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Before trying to defend muslims maybe you should learn what islam teaches... I mean really teaches..not this pc stuff that some muslims put out. It is a victory to them.

When I was living in chicago (well technically a suburb, bridgeview), I belonged to a small mosque that was looking to expand. I was lucky enough to get on the committee that was to choose the possible locations (not that i had any say, i was just there for the pc crowd). The first meeting it was discussed the 1 thing that was a must was that it had to be an old church that we bought. Why you ask.. because it would be thought of as a victory over the christians.. it would be looked at as the muslims shut down yet another place for the 'dirty christians' to practice their 'idolatry'.

In islam it is all about the victory... Theirs..not ours. Even the pc muslims... it is all about their victory..not ours.. .that is what needs to be kept in mind.

Do you think that if the roles were reversed... they would be debating amongst themselves as to whether or not to let us build a church...NO they would not be. The answer would be a flat out no without a debate.

I keep seeing the same question asked about if we stop muslims from practicing how long will it be before we as christians can't... wait... kids get kicked out of school now for praying or bringing a bible to school. In many schools kids can no longer say 'one nation under God' when saying the pledge... In many places of work you can't even pull your bible out and read it. In Dearborn, MI a christian cannot hand a christian tract to a muslim but yet a muslim can give you one on islam... Our right to practice has been slowly slipping away for years.

And as christians how can anyone sit and defend a group that is so anti christian. Witness to them and bring them to Christ.


:amen:
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Before trying to defend muslims maybe you should learn what islam teaches... I mean really teaches..not this pc stuff that some muslims put out. It is a victory to them.

When I was living in chicago (well technically a suburb, bridgeview), I belonged to a small mosque that was looking to expand. I was lucky enough to get on the committee that was to choose the possible locations (not that i had any say, i was just there for the pc crowd). The first meeting it was discussed the 1 thing that was a must was that it had to be an old church that we bought. Why you ask.. because it would be thought of as a victory over the christians.. it would be looked at as the muslims shut down yet another place for the 'dirty christians' to practice their 'idolatry'.

In islam it is all about the victory... Theirs..not ours. Even the pc muslims... it is all about their victory..not ours.. .that is what needs to be kept in mind.

Do you think that if the roles were reversed... they would be debating amongst themselves as to whether or not to let us build a church...NO they would not be. The answer would be a flat out no without a debate.

I keep seeing the same question asked about if we stop muslims from practicing how long will it be before we as christians can't... wait... kids get kicked out of school now for praying or bringing a bible to school. In many schools kids can no longer say 'one nation under God' when saying the pledge... In many places of work you can't even pull your bible out and read it. In Dearborn, MI a christian cannot hand a christian tract to a muslim but yet a muslim can give you one on islam... Our right to practice has been slowly slipping away for years.

And as christians how can anyone sit and defend a group that is so anti christian. Witness to them and bring them to Christ.


For some reason I find many of your assertions hard to believe. Maybe it's because you only have 25 post and you just so happened to magically appear here with your "conversion" story at the same time that this issue became a topic. Additionally, it is absolutely not true that a Christian cannot hand out a "tract" in Dearborn, MI, or anywhere else for that matter, yet a Muslim can. That would be a fundamental violation of civil liberties that would be corrected by any Court of competent jurisdiction. And just so we are clear, the public school system in this nation does not exists for the children of Christians to evangelize everyone else. It upsets me as it is to have my tax dollars go to such an ineffective system, it would upset me even more if the children weren't there actually learning, but instead there spreading their religious beliefs. It's simply not what the schools are set up for. Furthermore, any child can pray at any time he or she wishes in school. I pray several times a day and no one knows it. I just sit in my office, bow my head and pray. You don't have to pull out a bible and stand on top of a desk to pray, you don't even have to do it out loud. God hears you even when you don't have a megaphone in your hand. If you would just read a few of the school prayer cases, you would see that in almost every circumstance, the child's "prayer" involves some outlandish interruption of the class and it is OBvious that the child's interest is not in being able to pray, but in spreading his or her message.

This whole business about every Muslim just waiting for the "right time" to turn on us and kill us is nothing more than fear mongering propaganda. It is becoming more and more OBvious that a few folks around here's prOBlem with the mosque in NY isn't its location, it's the fact that it is being built period. You don't like religions that are different from your own (which is your right) and you want to use government to limit their ability to exists (not your right). How far away from ground zero would be an appropriate location for this mosque? Mayber 2 1/2 blocks? 10 blocks? Or 3,000 miles away in the Middle East?

While making these fanciful arguments about concerns for our safety and the like, let's not forget that you are far more likely to be the victim of a terrorist attack carried out by an extremist Christian in this country than you are from one carried out by an extremist Muslim.

One last point, and just so we are on the same page: we are not debating about whether or not to let them build their mosque. That's not up to me and you or anyone else. Our Constitution, the same document that allows you to build your church, has already decided that these people can build their mosque. You and I can debate about whether it is insensitive or about whether or not the existing structure should have been given landmark status, but our beliefs and opinions have absolutely no bearing on whether or not the mosque will be built. It will be built, exactly where they want it, and there isn't a thing you and I or anyone else can do about it. And that is something you should be thankful for.
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For some reason I find many of your assertions hard to believe. Maybe it's because you only have 25 post and you just so happened to magically appear here with your "conversion" story at the same time that this issue became a topic. Additionally, it is absolutely not true that a Christian cannot hand out a "tract" in Dearborn, MI, or anywhere else for that matter, yet a Muslim can. That would be a fundamental violation of civil liberties that would be corrected by any Court of competent jurisdiction. And just so we are clear, the public school system in this nation does not exists for the children of Christians to evangelize everyone else. It upsets me as it is to have my tax dollars go to such an ineffective system, it would upset me even more if the children weren't there actually learning, but instead there spreading their religious beliefs. It's simply not what the schools are set up for. Furthermore, any child can pray at any time he or she wishes in school. I pray several times a day and no one knows it. I just sit in my office, bow my head and pray. You don't have to pull out a bible and stand on top of a desk to pray, you don't even have to do it out loud. God hears you even when you don't have a megaphone in your hand. If you would just read a few of the school prayer cases, you would see that in almost every circumstance, the child's "prayer" involves some outlandish interruption of the class and it is OBvious that the child's interest is not in being able to pray, but in spreading his or her message.

This whole business about every Muslim just waiting for the "right time" to turn on us and kill us is nothing more than fear mongering propaganda. It is becoming more and more OBvious that a few folks around here's prOBlem with the mosque in NY isn't its location, it's the fact that it is being built period. You don't like religions that are different from your own (which is your right) and you want to use government to limit their ability to exists (not your right). How far away from ground zero would be an appropriate location for this mosque? Mayber 2 1/2 blocks? 10 blocks? Or 3,000 miles away in the Middle East?

While making these fanciful arguments about concerns for our safety and the like, let's not forget that you are far more likely to be the victim of a terrorist attack carried out by an extremist Christian in this country than you are from one carried out by an extremist Muslim.

One last point, and just so we are on the same page: we are not debating about whether or not to let them build their mosque. That's not up to me and you or anyone else. Our Constitution, the same document that allows you to build your church, has already decided that these people can build their mosque. You and I can debate about whether it is insensitive or about whether or not the existing structure should have been given landmark status, but our beliefs and opinions have absolutely no bearing on whether or not the mosque will be built. It will be built, exactly where they want it, and there isn't a thing you and I or anyone else can do about it. And that is something you should be thankful for.


Wow. Do you live in a cave? Do you believe the Bible?

I have no idea who koti is or why God has them here but from personal experience I know what they are posting is true. Read some history, read some contemporary news that's outside the drivel they give in the half-hour mainstream reports. Christians have been hauled away for passing out tracts in Dearborn and Christians have been silenced in many schools while special accomodations have been made to provide Muslims with a prayer room and Muslims are given special treatment with regard to certain of their "holy days".

It should be noted the first idea for public school was to educate the next generation to be good Christians. It wasn't until much later that public schools were turned into anti-Christian propaganda arms of the central government.

Islam isn't just a "different religion", Islam is a false religion leading millions to hell and actively working to prevent millions from hearing the Gospel. Why would any biblical Christian like that or support such in any way?

How many people in America have been killed by Muslims in the past year or two or few years and how many have been killed by biblical Christians? Off the top of my head I can think of several who were killed by Muslims but none that were killed by biblical Christians.

Considering I serve Almighty God there is a great deal myself and other biblical Christians can do about the building of Mosques and the Islamification of America.
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Wow. Do you live in a cave? Do you believe the Bible?

I have no idea who koti is or why God has them here but from personal experience I know what they are posting is true. Read some history, read some contemporary news that's outside the drivel they give in the half-hour mainstream reports. Christians have been hauled away for passing out tracts in Dearborn and Christians have been silenced in many schools while special accomodations have been made to provide Muslims with a prayer room and Muslims are given special treatment with regard to certain of their "holy days".

It should be noted the first idea for public school was to educate the next generation to be good Christians. It wasn't until much later that public schools were turned into anti-Christian propaganda arms of the central government.

Islam isn't just a "different religion", Islam is a false religion leading millions to hell and actively working to prevent millions from hearing the Gospel. Why would any biblical Christian like that or support such in any way?

How many people in America have been killed by Muslims in the past year or two or few years and how many have been killed by biblical Christians? Off the top of my head I can think of several who were killed by Muslims but none that were killed by biblical Christians.

Considering I serve Almighty God there is a great deal myself and other biblical Christians can do about the building of Mosques and the Islamification of America.


Of course I believe the Bible. I believe that our government is a gift from God and that the proper use thereof is a blessing. No Christian has been "hauled away" for passing out tracts in Dearborn, MI or anywhere else. That is just simply not true. And I want Christians to be silenced in the public schools. As I said, that's not what my tax dollars should be spent on. It's not the public school's jOB to "Christinize" our children. It exists for the sole purpose of providing a somewhat sufficient education that enables the majority of people to participate in our society. No one can prevent you and I or anyone from praying. I don't know the verse off the top of my head, but there is even an Biblical mandate that we should pray in private. These children that make a spectacle out of their prayers are not praying, but are doing just that - making spectacle so as to cause controversy and distract from the purpose of the schools.

And I'm not supporting Islam. I'm supporting freedom and I do so because I value my own freedom. I don't want, nor need, you or anyone else telling me how, when or where I can practice my faith. The same holds true for Muslims, Buddhist, Hindus and, yes, all other Christians. I may not agree with what they do, but I support their freedom to do it.

Apart from 9/11, I can't think of any Americans that have been killed by Muslim extremists in this country in the past ten years. The most recent act of religious terrorism in this country (that I can recall) was the murder of the abortionist in Kansas last year - which was carried out by a Christian extremist. It is no more truthful to say that every Muslim is a terrorist than it is to say that every Christian is a terrorist. There is almost always a certain element of any group, religious or otherwise, that exists on the fringes and holds to more extreme beliefs than the core of the group.

If you believe every Muslim is a terrorist, and therefore a criminal and possible enemy combatant, then why aren't you lOBbying your local police to make arrest? If I honestly believed that the Mosque (or any other facility for that matter) down the street was the headquarters of a group of murderous criminals whose attack upon me and my family was imminent, then I'm sure the people of my community would walk down the street and end it one way or another. All of which gets back to the heart of the matter. It is not a fear of being attacked by Muslims that has brought about all of this discord. It is a internal disdain for, and fear of, a group of people who are different than you and your basic primal instinct to eliminate them.

And there is absolutely nothing you can do, within the bounds of the law, to prevent these people, or anyone else, from worshiping who/what ever they want, when and where ever they want. They have the same first ammendment protections as you do. Edited by ptwild
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Of course I believe the Bible. I believe that our government is a gift from God and that the proper use thereof is a blessing. No Christian has been "hauled away" for passing out tracts in Dearborn, MI or anywhere else. That is just simply not true. And I want Christians to be silenced in the public schools. As I said, that's not what my tax dollars should be spent on. It's not the public school's jOB to "Christinize" our children. It exists for the sole purpose of providing a somewhat sufficient education that enables the majority of people to participate in our society. No one can prevent you and I or anyone from praying. I don't know the verse off the top of my head, but there is even an Biblical mandate that we should pray in private. These children that make a spectacle out of their prayers are not praying, but are doing just that - making spectacle so as to cause controversy and distract from the purpose of the schools.

And I'm not supporting Islam. I'm supporting freedom and I do so because I value my own freedom. I don't want, nor need, you or anyone else telling me how, when or where I can practice my faith. The same holds true for Muslims, Buddhist, Hindus and, yes, all other Christians. I may not agree with what they do, but I support their freedom to do it.

Apart from 9/11, I can't think of any Americans that have been killed by Muslim extremists in this country in the past ten years. The most recent act of religious terrorism in this country (that I can recall) was the murder of the abortionist in Kansas last year - which was carried out by a Christian extremist. It is no more truthful to say that every Muslim is a terrorist than it is to say that every Christian is a terrorist. There is almost always a certain element of any group, religious or otherwise, that exists on the fringes and holds to more extreme beliefs than the core of the group.

If you believe every Muslim is a terrorist, and therefore a criminal and possible enemy combatant, then why aren't you lOBbying your local police to make arrest? If I honestly believed that the Mosque (or any other facility for that matter) down the street was the headquarters of a group of murderous criminals whose attack upon me and my family was imminent, then I'm sure the people of my community would walk down the street and end it one way or another. All of which gets back to the heart of the matter. It is not a fear of being attacked by Muslims that has brought about all of this discord. It is a internal disdain for, and fear of, a group of people who are different than you and your basic primal instinct to eliminate them.

And there is absolutely nothing you can do, within the bounds of the law, to prevent these people, or anyone else, from worshiping who/what ever they want, when and where ever they want. They have the same first ammendment protections as you do.


Like every other government on the planet, the American government is corrupt and ungodly. Our citizenship is in heaven and this should take precedence over anything "American".

If you can do good searches look up the incidences in Dearborn with regards to Christians and the police. While doing so you might encounter some other similar incidences which have occured in various parts of the country.

Are you the one who designed the public school system so that you know what it is and isn't for? The first public schools were to educate children so they could read the Bible and become good Christians and therefore good citizens. It wasn't until the latter half of the 1880s that public schools began being used to promote propaganda. In the 1900s the public schools increasing came under governmental, rather than local, control. Until the mid-1900s part of many public schools jOB was to still to teach the Bible. It wasn't until unconstitutional edicts were handed down by the courts that such was changed. Read the history of public schools and the closer you get to contemporary times the more you see the purpose for the current public schools is to dechristianize students and to push PC propaganda, any actual education is a side issue.

Were the schools better when they were run by Christians who taught from the Bible and encouraged Christian growth or today when they promote ungodliness?

Where were you when the Muslim officer shot those soldiers in Texas? Or how about the Muslims who have shot people in front of recruiting center? We could even consider how many have been caught in the preparation stages to kill Americans.

Islam is a false religion leading people to hell and preventing people from hearing the Gospel. Why would any Christian support them in any way?

I've seen God answer prayers and I know the prayers of His people are heard and answered and He is more than capable of preventing a Mosque from being built in any parituclar place.

Sorry for the rush but I have family to tend to.
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Like every other government on the planet, the American government is corrupt and ungodly. Our citizenship is in heaven and this should take precedence over anything "American".

If you can do good searches look up the incidences in Dearborn with regards to Christians and the police. While doing so you might encounter some other similar incidences which have occured in various parts of the country.

Are you the one who designed the public school system so that you know what it is and isn't for? The first public schools were to educate children so they could read the Bible and become good Christians and therefore good citizens. It wasn't until the latter half of the 1880s that public schools began being used to promote propaganda. In the 1900s the public schools increasing came under governmental, rather than local, control. Until the mid-1900s part of many public schools jOB was to still to teach the Bible. It wasn't until unconstitutional edicts were handed down by the courts that such was changed. Read the history of public schools and the closer you get to contemporary times the more you see the purpose for the current public schools is to dechristianize students and to push PC propaganda, any actual education is a side issue.

Were the schools better when they were run by Christians who taught from the Bible and encouraged Christian growth or today when they promote ungodliness?

Where were you when the Muslim officer shot those soldiers in Texas? Or how about the Muslims who have shot people in front of recruiting center? We could even consider how many have been caught in the preparation stages to kill Americans.

Islam is a false religion leading people to hell and preventing people from hearing the Gospel. Why would any Christian support them in any way?

I've seen God answer prayers and I know the prayers of His people are heard and answered and He is more than capable of preventing a Mosque from being built in any parituclar place.

Sorry for the rush but I have family to tend to.


Forgive me, in my own rush I failed to recall the shootings at Fort Hood. However, I do believe that the shooter in that instance had long suffered from mental illness and I don't know if it was ever established that his religious beliefs motivated him in anyway, or to what degree. From what I recall, he had mental issues and just happened to be Muslim and that, combined with the war on terror, caused him to "lose it," so to speak. I don't believe there is any evidence that his local Muslim community was encouraging him to murder his fellow soldiers.

And even if what you say about the beginnings of our public schools is true, it has no bearing on how things are today in the real world. The moment our federal tax dollars started supporting the public schools is the moment that our federal constitutional protections kicked in. If the schools used to be a totally local entity, receiving their financial support and man power from the local community, then I would say that the were not in fact "public" schools, but rather, private schools that offered free education to local students. I also don't understand the argument that because an entity began a certain way that that way is automatically correct. Almost any "thing" can start with certain constitutional violations and then later be corrected by our courts without eliminating the "thing" altogether.

And again, just because I support a persons (or a group of persons) right to religious freedom does not mean I support their ideas. I've seen it posted here many times that Catholicism (and even some would say, Anglicanism) is a "false religion" that is sending people to hell, yet I don't see people clamoring together to prevent the construction of new Catholic churches. I think your position might at least appear valid if it had any sort of pattern of consistency. It's just hard for me to get behind or agree with something so whimsical and capricious that finds all of its basis in emotionalism, rather than reason.

And no one said God couldn't prevent the building of the Mosque. But you (and those that agree with you) are not God and I believe the equation of the two might be, in part, a source of the prOBlem.
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Just to let you know, pt - koti has been on the ladies forum longer than she's been over here. And to question her conversion just because she hasn't posted as many posts as others equates you with God, as you accused others in your previous post. She was muslim and is now Christian, and instead of questioning her you should be rejoicing that she is saved out of that false politico-religious system.

As to passing out tracts in Dearborn: how do you know? You live in the south, not in MI, let alone Dearborn. And you are dead wrong. There were Christians arrested this year in Dearborn.
You can read it here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2538820/posts
You can watch the vids here: http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/06/026594.php

Dearborn is not the only place where Christians get into trouble for trying to witness. You need to get your head out of the sand, brother!

As to the shootings at Fort Hood, that guy was not a mental case. He actually was a counselor, himself. The media tried to portray him as suffering from some kind of symapthetic PTSD, but it was shown that he actually wasn't (and, voila, no more was heard...). But that he was a follower of an imam who is virulently anti-American - and, yes, it was established that his religious/political (in Islam they are one and the same)beliefs influenced him. Sorry to burst your bubble, but he was a terrorist, "serving" in the US Army. That kinda scares me for my son.

And let's not forget about the muslims who tried to get onto Fort Dix with intention (and ability) of doing some major harm...Let's not forget about the muslims who shot the USS Cole. Let's not forget about the FIRST attempt at the WTC - by muslims. The list could go on.

Islam is a politico-religious system, and as such doesn't rate protection under the first amendment. It is diametrically opposed to the Constitution and as such should be put out of our country. And, please, cut out the feeble protestations that our thoughts are based on emotions. You're starting to sound kinda emotional about it. :icon_mrgreen:

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Well, that's the thing that I've been trying to say and ptwild has also been saying. This is very different from the 2 world wars or any other war we've fought for that matter. You can't treat it the same way. Naming our enemies takes some discernment and some intellectual work. If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck... just isn't going to work here.
You misunderstood what I meant. I didn't mean that it was very different - although, to a certain extent, it is different: one big one being that there is a lot of stuff going on here in America to destroy us by muslims and people are putting their heads in the sand about it. What I meant was that during the 2 World Wars, those whom we were fighting were separated in ways - Japanese in internment camps, and no folks of German lineage were allowed to fight in the American military. I'm not advocating internment camps, I'm just pointing out that we were a lot more savvy to possible sabotage and betrayal then than we are now. And it is there - it's happening almost daily, we just don't hear about it all the time because we're supposed to accept that islam is a religion of peace. But any politico-religious system is not about peace, it is about control.
Also, this isn't a monument to their victory. If it is they're doing a very poor jOB. I don't know if you've ever been to NYC, but I live there and I can tell you that 2 blocks can be a long way and there are lots of buildings and establishments between the mosque/community center and ground zero. For goodness sakes there are churches that are closer to ground zero than this building is. In lower Manhattan everything is very close together. Muslims are not building a shrine to a "victory." They are building a community center for people of Islamic faith who live and work in the area. See, this is an indication of your lack of understanding. Yes, it is a victory for them. Two blocks is not that far - in any city. Add to that the fact that the building that is on that property was damaged by fallout from the attack, and the business subsequently closed - oh, yes, building their "community center" is going to be a great monument to their victory. For goodness sakes, do a little research into the muslim mind...
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Just to let you know, pt - koti has been on the ladies forum longer than she's been over here. And to question her conversion just because she hasn't posted as many posts as others equates you with God, as you accused others in your previous post. She was muslim and is now Christian, and instead of questioning her you should be rejoicing that she is saved out of that false politico-religious system.

As to passing out tracts in Dearborn: how do you know? You live in the south, not in MI, let alone Dearborn. And you are dead wrong. There were Christians arrested this year in Dearborn.
You can read it here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2538820/posts
You can watch the vids here: http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/06/026594.php

Dearborn is not the only place where Christians get into trouble for trying to witness. You need to get your head out of the sand, brother!

As to the shootings at Fort Hood, that guy was not a mental case. He actually was a counselor, himself. The media tried to portray him as suffering from some kind of symapthetic PTSD, but it was shown that he actually wasn't (and, voila, no more was heard...). But that he was a follower of an imam who is virulently anti-American - and, yes, it was established that his religious/political (in Islam they are one and the same)beliefs influenced him. Sorry to burst your bubble, but he was a terrorist, "serving" in the US Army. That kinda scares me for my son.

And let's not forget about the muslims who tried to get onto Fort Dix with intention (and ability) of doing some major harm...Let's not forget about the muslims who shot the USS Cole. Let's not forget about the FIRST attempt at the WTC - by muslims. The list could go on.

Islam is a politico-religious system, and as such doesn't rate protection under the first amendment. It is diametrically opposed to the Constitution and as such should be put out of our country. And, please, cut out the feeble protestations that our thoughts are based on emotions. You're starting to sound kinda emotional about it. :icon_mrgreen:


:amen:

I've seen nothing but good posts from koti and now that you mention it I do recall her posting somewhere that she had been on the ladies forum for some time.

As to the rest, thanks for taking the time to find those links and the rest deserves a big :thumb:
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Just to let you know, pt - koti has been on the ladies forum longer than she's been over here. And to question her conversion just because she hasn't posted as many posts as others equates you with God, as you accused others in your previous post. She was muslim and is now Christian, and instead of questioning her you should be rejoicing that she is saved out of that false politico-religious system.

As to passing out tracts in Dearborn: how do you know? You live in the south, not in MI, let alone Dearborn. And you are dead wrong. There were Christians arrested this year in Dearborn.
You can read it here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2538820/posts
You can watch the vids here: http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/06/026594.php

Dearborn is not the only place where Christians get into trouble for trying to witness. You need to get your head out of the sand, brother!

As to the shootings at Fort Hood, that guy was not a mental case. He actually was a counselor, himself. The media tried to portray him as suffering from some kind of symapthetic PTSD, but it was shown that he actually wasn't (and, voila, no more was heard...). But that he was a follower of an imam who is virulently anti-American - and, yes, it was established that his religious/political (in Islam they are one and the same)beliefs influenced him. Sorry to burst your bubble, but he was a terrorist, "serving" in the US Army. That kinda scares me for my son.

And let's not forget about the muslims who tried to get onto Fort Dix with intention (and ability) of doing some major harm...Let's not forget about the muslims who shot the USS Cole. Let's not forget about the FIRST attempt at the WTC - by muslims. The list could go on.

Islam is a politico-religious system, and as such doesn't rate protection under the first amendment. It is diametrically opposed to the Constitution and as such should be put out of our country. And, please, cut out the feeble protestations that our thoughts are based on emotions. You're starting to sound kinda emotional about it. :icon_mrgreen:


I did look up the Dearborn, MI issue and, as I stated earlier, the folks involved were not arrested for handing out "tracts." They were arrested for disturbing the peace. I'm sure if are in fact innocent that a jury of their peers has acquitted them.

As far as the USS Cole and the first WTC bombing, I believe we were talking about the past ten years here in the U.S.

And I love the new buzz word/phrase of politico-religious. Very cute.

In the end, I am much more scared of people who take measures to prevent me from practicing my rights than I am of the gentleman across the hall that helped my fix my sink and who gets my mail for me while I'm on vacation.

What exactly are you suggesting we do Happy? Expel each and every Muslim, whether they are a U.S. citizen or not, from our country?
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For some reason I find many of your assertions hard to believe. Maybe it's because you only have 25 post and you just so happened to magically appear here with your "conversion" story at the same time that this issue became a topic. Additionally, it is absolutely not true that a Christian cannot hand out a "tract" in Dearborn, MI, or anywhere else for that matter, yet a Muslim can. That would be a fundamental violation of civil liberties that would be corrected by any Court of competent jurisdiction. And just so we are clear, the public school system in this nation does not exists for the children of Christians to evangelize everyone else. It upsets me as it is to have my tax dollars go to such an ineffective system, it would upset me even more if the children weren't there actually learning, but instead there spreading their religious beliefs. It's simply not what the schools are set up for. Furthermore, any child can pray at any time he or she wishes in school. I pray several times a day and no one knows it. I just sit in my office, bow my head and pray. You don't have to pull out a bible and stand on top of a desk to pray, you don't even have to do it out loud. God hears you even when you don't have a megaphone in your hand. If you would just read a few of the school prayer cases, you would see that in almost every circumstance, the child's "prayer" involves some outlandish interruption of the class and it is OBvious that the child's interest is not in being able to pray, but in spreading his or her message.

This whole business about every Muslim just waiting for the "right time" to turn on us and kill us is nothing more than fear mongering propaganda. It is becoming more and more OBvious that a few folks around here's prOBlem with the mosque in NY isn't its location, it's the fact that it is being built period. You don't like religions that are different from your own (which is your right) and you want to use government to limit their ability to exists (not your right). How far away from ground zero would be an appropriate location for this mosque? Mayber 2 1/2 blocks? 10 blocks? Or 3,000 miles away in the Middle East?

While making these fanciful arguments about concerns for our safety and the like, let's not forget that you are far more likely to be the victim of a terrorist attack carried out by an extremist Christian in this country than you are from one carried out by an extremist Muslim.

One last point, and just so we are on the same page: we are not debating about whether or not to let them build their mosque. That's not up to me and you or anyone else. Our Constitution, the same document that allows you to build your church, has already decided that these people can build their mosque. You and I can debate about whether it is insensitive or about whether or not the existing structure should have been given landmark status, but our beliefs and opinions have absolutely no bearing on whether or not the mosque will be built. It will be built, exactly where they want it, and there isn't a thing you and I or anyone else can do about it. And that is something you should be thankful for.


Excuse me but I was here before this thread started... Do not believe the story in Dearborn?

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=169577

Would you like proof of my past as a muslim.. I could provide you with many of pics. Why would I lie about it? So because you can't debate the points I make you turn it into a personal attack?

As to our constitution... It does provide freedom of religion as long as your religion doesn't cause harm to others... Hmmm a whole religion that teaches to hate and kill us I guess isn't harmful.

BTW, prayer in school... oddly though.. muslims are allowed to leave in the middle of class to go to office and pray...but christians can't... hmmmm...

And there is something that can be done about it... God can put roadblocks in their way and I pray God does.

I will not continue to debate with someone who resorts to personal attacks which is how you opened your post. I have been nothing but honest.
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And now the imam of the proposed "community center" (why would they need an imam for that...) is being flown to the middle east: paid for by US taxpayers...


'community center' the new pc word for mosque is why. Many mosques are now called Islamic center of (insert name of city). It is a fairly new trend. Regardless of what the majority of floors will be used for there will be at least 1 if not 2 (one for men, one for women)dedicated to prayer and lessons. Therefore making it a mosque.

Thank you to those who defended me.
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