Ground Zero Mosque Should Not Be Built

[JerryNumbers]

Opponents Question Ground Zero Mosque's Murky Funding, Mysterious Sponsors

I believe some are expressing their opinion without having the information needed to express an opinion in favor of this. Perhaps this article will help you. As this article says, there be some mystrous sponsors, plus those approving it may have done so wrongly.

[CPR]

Opponents Question Ground Zero Mosque's Murky Funding, Mysterious Sponsors

I believe some are expressing their opinion without having the information needed to express an opinion in favor of this. Perhaps this article will help you. As this article says, there be some mystrous sponsors, plus those approving it may have done so wrongly.

If you are going to try to "help" us, then perhaps you should post from a source that doesn't have a biased agenda.

Regardless, I think what we are trying to say is that most (perhaps not all, but most) people who are opposed to this center are expressing very emotional arguments not legal ones. Freedom of religion is for every religion and when we deny it or put restrictions on it for any reason we are on very dangerous ground. That's what sets our great country apart.

Jerry, can you imagine if the church you pastor planned to open a community center or new church or soup kitchen or something of the like (insert ministry here) and had to deal with this kind of prOBing opposition? You would be outraged and rightfully so! You and your parishoners would wonder what happened to your first amendment rights guaranteeing you freedom of religion.

Yes, we are at war. But we are at war with terrorists - Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda. We are not at war with your next door neighbor who happens to be a Muslim. We are not at war with a country or with that guy in your office who's family goes to the mosque in town. Unfortunately, it's not that simple. It's not easy to name our enemies as in days past. That is why we need the rights and protections in the Constitution to guarantee everyone equal protection under the law. Our human emotions can never give everyone equal standing, but the law and the Constitution can. Have you ever seen the statue representation of justice? She is wearing a blindfold to represent that justice is blind because that is what we strive for. We need that now more than ever today.

“Any system of government will work when everything is going well. It's the system that functions in the pinches that survives.” -JFK

[ptwild]

Opponents Question Ground Zero Mosque's Murky Funding, Mysterious Sponsors

I believe some are expressing their opinion without having the information needed to express an opinion in favor of this. Perhaps this article will help you. As this article says, there be some mystrous sponsors, plus those approving it may have done so wrongly.

That's not a news article, it's propoganda. The planning commission didn't "approve" what is to be build there, they merely decided that the existing building does not deserve landmark status (a decision totally within their discretion). In the end, the facility will be built and this issue will be forgotten within a few months.

[JerryNumbers]

If America would throw out its Christians heritage, beliefs, the worlds view of America would instantly change. Them the Islam's could have their way. Christianity is the one thing holding them back.

I might add, America is slowly throwing out its Christians beliefs, and many professing Christians are helping her to meet that goal.

What one deems propaganda and or a truth is always base on one's core beliefs, values, where their sympathies lie.

In this world it is good verse evil, or one could say Satan versus God. Its just a matter of which side one is on.

God and His Holy Spirit is the only thing holding back evil, it shall not always be that way, when Jesus comes for His on that will change.

[CPR]

If America would throw out its Christians heritage, beliefs, the worlds view of America would instantly change. Them the Islam's could have their way. Christianity is the one thing holding them back.

I might add, America is slowly throwing out its Christians beliefs, and many professing Christians are helping her to meet that goal.

What one deems propaganda and or a truth is always base on one's core beliefs, values, where their sympathies lie.

In this world it is good verse evil, or one could say Satan versus God. Its just a matter of which side one is on.

God and His Holy Spirit is the only thing holding back evil, it shall not always be that way, when Jesus comes for His on that will change.

prop·a·gan·da   [prop-uh-gan-duh]
–noun
1.
information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.
2.
the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.
3.
the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement.

Propaganda is not subjective and truth most definitely isn't. It is not the jOB of the American government to uphold Christian ideals nor would it be right for them to do so. The government cannot favor one religion over the other.

Also, I disagree that Christianity is holding Muslims back from building a community center or a mosque or practicing their religion as they see fit. At least I certainly hope that is not the case. Instead I see the prOBlem as ignorance. In some cases it is willful, in some cases it is not (so don't think I am saying ignorance in an accusatory manner, just stating it).

People OBject to this and I think that it is an important topic to discuss. However, I would like to challenge you logically present your points and to discuss this with me and others without posting articles or falling back on the same old "America used to be a Christian nation but now it's evil so we better hope Jesus comes back soon" argument. Not trying to be rude or offensive, but I'd like to engage in a meaningful discussion about these issues if possible.

[JerryNumbers]

<br />prop·a·gan·da   [prop-uh-gan-duh]  <br />–noun<br />1.<br />information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.<br />2.<br />the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.<br />3.<br />the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement.<br /><br />Propaganda is not subjective and truth most definitely isn't.  It is not the jOB of the American government to uphold Christian ideals nor would it be right for them to do so.  The government cannot favor one religion over the other.  <br /><br />Also, I disagree that Christianity is holding Muslims back from building a community center or a mosque or practicing their religion as they see fit.  At least I certainly hope that is not the case.  Instead I see the prOBlem as ignorance.  In some cases it is willful, in some cases it is not (so don't think I am saying ignorance in an accusatory manner, just stating it).  <br /><br />People OBject to this and I think that it is an important topic to discuss.  However, I would like to challenge you logically present your points and to discuss this with me and others without posting articles or falling back on the same old &quot;America used to be a Christian nation but now it's evil so we better hope Jesus comes back soon&quot; argument.  Not trying to be rude or offensive, but I'd like to engage in a meaningful discussion about these issues if possible.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

OBviously you do not believe the Bible, for the Holy Spirit is holding back evil, when its taken out, along with Jesus' Churches, well, just read what takes place during the 'tribulation & great tribulation' which will start after Jesus has come for His own.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

As for the other, I've already answerd.

I wrote:
"What one deems propaganda and or a truth is always base on one's core beliefs, values, where their sympathies lie."

[CPR]

<br /><br /><br />

OBviously you do not believe the Bible

Really? There's no reason for that kind of accusation.

I have not stated or insinuated anywhere that I do not believe the Bible so I have no idea why you would suggest such a thing.

Since you have not offered anything new in your last 3 posts and are now resorting to personal attacks I can only assume that you have nothing left to add to the discussion. It's unfortunate that an otherwise interesting and civil discussion had to end this way.

[Wilchbla]

prop·a·gan·da   [prop-uh-gan-duh]
–noun
1.
information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.
2.
the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.
3.
the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement.

Propaganda is not subjective and truth most definitely isn't. It is not the jOB of the American government to uphold Christian ideals nor would it be right for them to do so. The government cannot favor one religion over the other.

Also, I disagree that Christianity is holding Muslims back from building a community center or a mosque or practicing their religion as they see fit. At least I certainly hope that is not the case. Instead I see the prOBlem as ignorance. In some cases it is willful, in some cases it is not (so don't think I am saying ignorance in an accusatory manner, just stating it).

People OBject to this and I think that it is an important topic to discuss. However, I would like to challenge you logically present your points and to discuss this with me and others without posting articles or falling back on the same old "America used to be a Christian nation but now it's evil so we better hope Jesus comes back soon" argument. Not trying to be rude or offensive, but I'd like to engage in a meaningful discussion about these issues if possible.

Actually the government had traditonally upheld Christian ideas until about 50 years ago. I realize that we are long past that though. This is why democracy will eventually cause this country to fall because a house divided against itself cannot stand. History shows that democracies last appoximately 75 years before they fall due to corruption and immorality.

The mosque at ground zero is a great symbolic victory for Islam and Sharia Law againt Western Civilization and freedom.

[DennisD]

Really? There's no reason for that kind of accusation.

I have not stated or insinuated anywhere that I do not believe the Bible so I have no idea why you would suggest such a thing.

Since you have not offered anything new in your last 3 posts and are now resorting to personal attacks I can only assume that you have nothing left to add to the discussion. It's unfortunate that an otherwise interesting and civil discussion had to end this way.

It is true though CPR, the Holy Spirit has two jOBs (if I've read the scriptures accurately). One is to convict us of sin and the other is hold evil at bay. Once the rapture happens, the Holy Spirit will not hold evil at bay anymore and it will be rampant.

[JerryNumbers]

It is true though CPR, the Holy Spirit has two jOBs (if I've read the scriptures accurately). One is to convict us of sin and the other is hold evil at bay. Once the rapture happens, the Holy Spirit will not hold evil at bay anymore and it will be rampant.

I'm not sure, I'm just guessing from the statements he has made, but I feel that CPR may not think that Islam is evil, plus he doe not know that the Holy Spirit is holding back evil during this church age.

And like many others, if he does not like the information, he calls it propaganda and or says its not true. with some one like that, there is no use debating them.

[John81]

Would America have allowed a Japanese temple to be built at Pearl Harbor during WWII?

How about a Nazi "education and understanding" building in London during WWII?

At one time Americans, as well as the English and most others, recognized enemies and established protections and otherwise regarding such during times of war.

Bible believing Christians should absolutely recognize the enemy status of the very ungodly, anti-Christ religion of Isalm and it's followers even if others don't.

[JerryNumbers]

Would America have allowed a Japanese temple to be built at Pearl Harbor during WWII?

How about a Nazi "education and understanding" building in London during WWII?

At one time Americans, as well as the English and most others, recognized enemies and established protections and otherwise regarding such during times of war.

Bible believing Christians should absolutely recognize the enemy status of the very ungodly, anti-Christ religion of Isalm and it's followers even if others don't.

True, yet we actually live in a different America now. Seems the same ones who want Christians to be accepting, and tolerant, want to kick us and God out of America, but yet accepting and tolerant of Islam while they persecute Christians in Islam countries and hates America and will do anything and everything possible to kill Americans, even in our home land. Go figure.

[CPR]

It is true though CPR, the Holy Spirit has two jOBs (if I've read the scriptures accurately). One is to convict us of sin and the other is hold evil at bay.

Thanks for your comment Dennis. Yes, that is my understanding of the work of the Holy Spirit from reading Scripture as well.

I'm not sure, I'm just guessing from the statements he has made, but I feel that CPR may not think that Islam is evil, plus he doe not know that the Holy Spirit is holding back evil during this church age.

And like many others, if he does not like the information, he calls it propaganda and or says its not true. with some one like that, there is no use debating them.

Jerry, I did not call your comment propaganda. I called your article biased and it was indeed from a biased source. As ptwild pointed out, there were some errors in the reporting.

Would America have allowed a Japanese temple to be built at Pearl Harbor during WWII?

How about a Nazi "education and understanding" building in London during WWII?

At one time Americans, as well as the English and most others, recognized enemies and established protections and otherwise regarding such during times of war.

Bible believing Christians should absolutely recognize the enemy status of the very ungodly, anti-Christ religion of Isalm and it's followers even if others don't.

No we would not. But this is what I've been trying to say throughout this thread. We had declared war with Japan. We had declared war with Nazi Germany. We are not at war with Islam. We are at war with Al Qaeda and various other terrorist organizations throughout the world. It's just not that easy.

You may view a spiritual war with Islam, but what I am talking about is the policy of the United States of America. A religious organization building a community center or a place of worship has to comply with local and federal laws, not another person's religion.

I am a Christian. I do not agree with their religion. However, I will defend their right to practice it.

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." -Voltaire

[John81]

For Christians, Christianity is to take precedence over any earthly ideas, including the American Constitution.

Many Christians from Asia, Africa and elsewhere have visited America longing to see this "great Christian nation" (most of the world still thinks of America as a Christian nation) only to be greatly troubled and disappointed to find American Christians placing the Constitution, their view of patriotism, political parties and such on equal basis with Scripture or even above such.

This is similar to those who have come to America from communist countries and can't believe how much communism has already corrupted America and how Americans (including many Christians) are embracing this.

[CPR]

New York City Mayor Bloomberg made an excellent speech on the issue and articulated the ideals better than I could have. His full speech can be read here: http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2010/08/bloomberg-stands-up-for-mosque.html