Training Children

[John81]

A parent sending their children to public school can't be said to be properly or biblically training up their child in the way they should go. The parent is not fulfilling Proverbs 22:6 in such a case.

You are correct with regards to outside influences and it's the parents responsibility to control those outside influences as much as possible. If Aunt Jenny is a cursing drunkard that likes to have the same to her house should a parent allow their child to spend the night there? If little Jimmy is consistently disOBedient to his parents should you allow your child to develope a close friendship with him?

Just a couple examples, but this also extends to the church one attends, church related activities, schooling, TV, movies, radio, internet, magazines, etc.

I've known of parents who send their children to a church camp which has very low standards of dress, conduct, discipline, watchfulness and such as well as being very watered down. The parents know this and they know what has gone on there with "other children" but believe it's good for their children and their children would never do "those things".

Biblically speaking, training up a child encompasses all aspects of their raising...education, instruction, work, play, entertainment, character, biblical instruction, exampling, etc. It's a total package that many professing Christians attempt to compartmentalize into being just about sending their kid to church or Sunday school, or setting good moral rules in the home or such.

LuAnne, good point to be mindful of regarding the difference between falling, stumbling or backsliding and not being in the faith. Even the best of us will have our times of stumbling over the course of the years and this certainly includes saved children.

What concerns me most about my own son is that he's never accepted the training and has specifically rejected Christ on several occasions plainly saying that he prefers to do what he wants to do and that he wants the pleasures of the world rather than following Christ.

[irishman]

We have some very good questions here, and frankly I don't have all the answers! I do not wish to portray myself as having "achieved" I merely am sticking up for scripture. I do believe however, that much of a child's destiny IS in the hands of the parents! Have you ever noticed how many preachers sons get called to the ministry? Why do you suppose God calles so many from the same family? And as a previous discussion pointed out sometime back, the parents are the ones that refused to enter the ark, and the children were destined to die because of it. I do not believe however that every child from a Christian home will turn out perfect, nor that they would never stray, but I do believe that if they do stray, they will find their way back if they were trained right--especially Christian children that fall into sin and deny the grace that saved them! That is what Prov. 22:6 is all about; not that they would not leave home and strike out on their own, and perhaps fall among thieves as the prodigal son did, but, as he did, they will eventually return if the training is right.

As for peer pressure, and the influences of the world, we are all tempted by them to some extent, but what keeps us from chasing after the worldly "delights"? The grace of God; but the character to act upon it and the WILL to do right, comes from a strong foundation in Bible doctrine.

My daughter asked me one time why the devil keeps tempting her when she quotes scripture? She said "isn't that supposed to chase him away?" I had t think on that one, but remember, it took Jesus three times of quoting scripture before Satan left him alone, than that was only for a time. if our Lord had to quote it three times, how much more do we?

I brought my kids up on daily devotions, Good Christian music, and character building themes (Patch the Pirate), and I told them that they had all they needed to make it in life. I used to say "No matter what anyone else does, you do what's right?" said it so much that they often finished it before I did! My kids weren't perfect, and they still aren't, by any means, but they love the Lord. they do things I would not recommend, and am not pleased with, but they love the Lord--that was the main thing, glorify the Father. My oldest daughter told me that she had never kissed a boy (man) until her wedding day. Halellujah! That's what it's all about. They did not go to Europe on their senior trip because I did not approve of a game where they had to hold hands with a boy, as well as I did not like the way the chaperones did things. I believe in Prov. 22:6 and the training of children, but there is a chance that they could have strayed, and that was when I trusted in the second part of it.

As for the influence of others, why is it that we so easily knuckle under to peers, and rebel against mom and dad? Usually it is normal to some extent, and maybe even healthy, but part of their training should be OBedience training (no that isn't only for dogs!) A rebellious spirit can be driven out of them with a firm rod, and that they will not forget! (Prov. 20:30 also 22:15) I find that many times, the parent grows weary in "beating" the child all the time, so they slack off, and try different ways to discipline, but the Bible only endorses corporeal punishment. The fear of "dad" will keep them from the evil influences, it did me even before I was saved! I did not do half of what I had a chance to do, and my friends compelled me to do, because I knew I would get a good lashing if I got caught. Most of them got grounded, and it was no big deal. If a child doesn't respond to that perhaps it is not severe enough! Every man must judge that for himself, I guess.

[irishman]

I have read the previous posts, and realized that this is a "sticky" subject with many of us. It really does no good to blame anyone, the prOBlem is to reconcile the child to the Lord first, then the family.

First let me say that I do not believe that the child will never stray, but that "When he is old" he will return to the Lord. The verse implies that they may stray away for time, so that is not the issue. Neither is the issue one of perfection,for I would be the first to admit that none of us are perfect, or even close to it, but it is an issue of returning to that firm foundation which should have already been laid, and will by all means, hold firm.

If we have not lain a proper foundation when they were very young, it is still not too late for the Lord to work in them, and "put a hook in their nose" so to speak, and turn them around. I know that man is a free moral agent, and that he is allowed to make spiritual decisions, but his will can be mastered and molded to do right, and "broken" and made to conform to the will of the Lord. God is also the God of the will! I feel sorry for the young man or woman that the Lord has to deal with, but if they are eternally saved, they are His children, and will be made to conform to His will eventually; and usually through doses of discipline and love, whatever the Lord deems appropriate at the time or for the occasion. This is where we leave off our part, and rely entirely on the Lord. Our sole duty to adult children is to love them, and be gracious to them, and allow the Lord to use it to His glory. This is the gist of the matter, and not who is to blame for it.

With that being said, I still believe that Prov. 22:6 is true to the fullest extent, else God would not be true!

Edited June 21, 2010 by irishman

[JerryNumbers]

How many of us has truly done this?


De 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
De 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.


How many of us has sent our children off to a public school and had them indoctrinated by unbelievers? To become best friends with unbelievers. To have run around with unbelievers?

One thing for sure.

Pr 22:6 ¶ Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

For this to work, we have to hold up our end.

[John81]

How many of us has truly done this?


De 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
De 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.


How many of us has sent our children off to a public school and had them indoctrinated by unbelievers? To become best friends with unbelievers. To have run around with unbelievers?

One thing for sure.

Pr 22:6 ¶ Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

For this to work, we have to hold up our end.

[John81]

Train Up a Child
By Rev. R.J. Rushdoony

When Ben-hadad, King of Syria, invaded Israel with a great army, he surrounded and besieged the capital, Samaria. King Ahab was cooped up within the walls with only 7,000 fighting men.

Ben-hadad then laid down the terms of surrender: the gold, silver, wives, and children of Ahab had to be delivered to him. The purpose of this demand was this: the surrender of wealth would leave Israel helpless in terms of future resistance. The surrender of the wives would humiliate Ahab before his people and break his power. But the final and greatest demand was for the surrender of his children. This was common in antiquity and into modern times. The children would be taken for re-education in terms of an alien faith and morality. When they were returned to succeed to the throne or authority, they often served an alien power.

When Prussia established state-controlled education, its purpose was similar. The modern mood was leading the common man to question the powers that be, and man was becoming a prOBlem to the state. How to control the people was thus the greatest question. One solution was to build straight streets over which cavalry could readily charge, and which cannons could sweep, in order to prevent popular resistance. Another solution was to take over schools from the churches and use them to brainwash future generations. James G. Carter, Horace Mann’s associate, openly stated that the goal of state control of education is people-control.

Children thus become alienated from their families and the faith. Conflict between teenagers and parents is a very modern phenomena, unknown previously except in rare cases. It is a product of anti-family education.

One of the reactions to this has been the rapid growth of Christian schools. Proverbs 22:6 declares, “Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.” This is a God-ordained responsibility. Our children belong to the Lord, and they must be reared and educated in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

http://chalcedon.edu/research/articles/train-up-a-child/

[irishman]

...and a big AMEN to that!


I promised the Lord a looonnnggg time ago that as long as He provided, I would send my kids to a Christian school, by the grace of God two out of three have never been in a public school. My son went to a secular college for awhile, but he had not so much as seen the inside of a secular school until then. Thank God for his benefits.

the prOBlem we had was finding a good Christian school!! Edited June 22, 2010 by irishman

[JerryNumbers]

I recognize that I failed to do it right. I've repenter of it, yet I'm seeing some of the consequences. Sad to say, some never see where they fail, them go through life saying I did everything right, where did I fail.

And when such a parent talks to you about this, if you even hint they failed as a parent while you know 1st hand of their failures yet do not mention them hoping they will see the things they did wrong, they get hostile and strike back at you.

[irishman]

Child rearing can be a touchy subject, it gets to the very core of what we are! Please don't think that I think I have "all the answers", truth is, I don't even know all the questions! I do know that this is an important subject, and oftentimes we only get one chance to do it right! The time and tears spent can pay off in the long run, because, (as the post was originally saying) scripture is true; if we deny that a properly trained child will turn out ok, then we deny Prov. 22:6, and that is the gist of the entire thread.

People are always looking for exceptions, but what are they really saying? They are saying that the free will of a child cannot be molded and shaped in the right direction, and Prov. 22:6 is not for everyone in today's modern world. No one has asked to ignore the free will of our children, but that will can be made to conform to God's will, as well as ours. Training is the key.

[John81]

Child rearing can be a touchy subject, it gets to the very core of what we are! Please don't think that I think I have "all the answers", truth is, I don't even know all the questions! I do know that this is an important subject, and oftentimes we only get one chance to do it right! The time and tears spent can pay off in the long run, because, (as the post was originally saying) scripture is true; if we deny that a properly trained child will turn out ok, then we deny Prov. 22:6, and that is the gist of the entire thread.

People are always looking for exceptions, but what are they really saying? They are saying that the free will of a child cannot be molded and shaped in the right direction, and Prov. 22:6 is not for everyone in today's modern world. No one has asked to ignore the free will of our children, but that will can be made to conform to God's will, as well as ours. Training is the key.

Proverbs 22:6 does not say a well trained child will accept Christ, only that they will stick to their training. This is a general principle that also applies in reverse, a poorly trained child will stick with their training. Even so, this doesn't mean that either child can't detour from their training or even change course. We see examples of this in Scripture as well as in our contemporary world.

I wasn't raised in a Christian home. Though my parents had some high moral standards they were lost and raised me in a worldly manner. Even after being in Christ for nearly 29 years I still battle against some of that "raising" however I have turned from the way I was raised.

In the same way there are some Christian parents doing their best to raise their children in the Lord and either their children reject the training or they seem to be accepting the training but after they are out on their own they turn from that training and live totally contrary to their raising. Some of these children do eventually come to Christ, some return to their roots, but for many they continue in wickedness.

We can ask "did the parents fail", we already know that all parenting is flawed but does that mean the parents failed? Do children have free will to accept or reject the training of their parents or are they predestined to take their parents molding? Can a parent guarentee their child will accept Christ by how they raise them or does the child have the free will to accept or reject Christ regardless of their raising? Why do we see families in which children raised virtually the same we find that some turn to Christ and others don't; some follow the path of righteousness while some take the path of wickedness? What about outside influences; do they have an impact for better or worse?

Does Scripture teach that, regardless of our raising, we must each choose to accept or reject Christ personally? Does Scripture teach that some are predestined to salvation based upon how well their parents raise them?

[JerryNumbers]

No doubt, I see the consequences of my failure in my daughters life.

I also know of many who have failed miserable at OBeying the above verses that seem not to admit it, yet seeing I did everything right and just look at how my children turned out. One such elderly couple, their daughter had been married about 5 times, their 3 grandsons in trouble all the time. Not to long back this couple died, they had a pretty good savings, the daughter, and 3 grandsons each bought a new Corvette, they're enjoying life to the fullness in the world with no concern for their souls.

We cannot live a life that sends mixed signals to our chidlren and expect to see them follow Jesus when they're grown.

An example I can think of at the moment was the pastor who approached the boy who had just enter the 12 grade who always attended the morning worship with his family only when there was nothing more important for his dad and mom to do. He asked him is it not about time for him to profess faith in Jesus. His reply was, when I see my dad putting more energy into church services, than he does in the country club, when I see my dad put more money in the collection plate at church than he does in the country club, when I see that church is more important to them than all theses worldly things, them I might consider Jesus?

We need to live a life of following Jesus all the time! We may fool those outside of our homes, but we will not fool our children, they will truly know if we are dedicated to Christ Jesus or not. If we are not it will have an adverse affect on our children's life.

[irishman]

i did not start this thread to condemn anyone--that's not my intent, I merely wish to emphasize, as I have over and over, that the scriptures are true, no matter what the adverse examples show us.

John 81 said: "Proverbs 22:6 does not say a well trained child will accept Christ, only that they will stick to their training. This is a general principle that also applies in reverse, a poorly trained child will stick with their training. Even so, this doesn't mean that either child can't detour from their training or even change course. We see examples of this in Scripture as well as in our contemporary world."

there is a slight prOBlem with your reasoning; if they stick to the proper training, they will submit to the will of God, because (as you yourself said) they will stick to that training that is in line with the will of God. Look at Jonah (already saved, of course) he had a "free will" too, but God changed his will, and he WANTED to do what the Lord commanded after he was chastised. Jesus Himself has said that none that the Father gave Him was lost John 17:12. He knew that those who really believed would follow Him, and "they will not depart from it".

I DID NOT however, claim that men do not have a free will to reject Christ or accept Him, of course they do. Some follow for their own reasons, for a time, some fall back into the world for a time, but the true test becomes time itself. Those that are truly saved will comse back to the Lord when they are "older". (see also 1 John 2:19)

[JerryNumbers]

i did not start this thread to condemn anyone--that's not my intent, I merely wish to emphasize, as I have over and over, that the scriptures are true, no matter what the adverse examples show us.

John 81 said: "Proverbs 22:6 does not say a well trained child will accept Christ, only that they will stick to their training. This is a general principle that also applies in reverse, a poorly trained child will stick with their training. Even so, this doesn't mean that either child can't detour from their training or even change course. We see examples of this in Scripture as well as in our contemporary world."

there is a slight prOBlem with your reasoning; if they stick to the proper training, they will submit to the will of God, because (as you yourself said) they will stick to that training that is in line with the will of God. Look at Jonah (already saved, of course) he had a "free will" too, but God changed his will, and he WANTED to do what the Lord commanded after he was chastised. Jesus Himself has said that none that the Father gave Him was lost John 17:12. He knew that those who really believed would follow Him, and "they will not depart from it".

I DID NOT however, claim that men do not have a free will to reject Christ or accept Him, of course they do. Some follow for their own reasons, for a time, some fall back into the world for a time, but the true test becomes time itself. Those that are truly saved will comse back to the Lord when they are "older". (see also 1 John 2:19)

Me too on that.

I know no one one this board personally, and I know nothing about their life. All I've done is stated some truths, and as you all have seen I stated I failed in being the godly father that I should have been through many of the years my daughter was growing up.

[John81]

What of those children who reject the training? They don't turn from their training, they rejected it all along, whether they reject it openly or they pretend to accept the training until they are on their own and then it clearly shows they rejected the training.

Proper training doesn't necessarily mean a child will come to Christ. Unless you believe proper training predestines a child to salvation.

[irishman]

What of those children who reject the training? They don't turn from their training, they rejected it all along, whether they reject it openly or they pretend to accept the training until they are on their own and then it clearly shows they rejected the training.

Proper training doesn't necessarily mean a child will come to Christ. Unless you believe proper training predestines a child to salvation.

Don't ask me, ask God--He wrote it!

If the training begins from day one, they would not know anything different and most likely would respond favorably and willingly,especially if they are sheltered from other adverse influences, which is (I believe) where many of us fail. When my kids went to college, they thought that all Christians were brought up like they were--boy! Did they get a rude awakening! They had things stolen; had been used by others; lied to; scoffed at; and ridiculed for some of their "strange" ways, but many also asked them if they were PK's signifying that they were at least a little impressed with their testimonies.

You interpret Prov. 22:6 any way you want, but please don't say it doesn't work! In so doing you defy the Word of God, who clearly says it does work.

By the way, I realize that most of child rearing is grace, and not us, praying without ceasing for our children gets the Lord in it, and when He gets in it, things happen.