Police: Girl raped, then relocated

[4everHis]

Sounds like we all need to be in prayer for all those concerned. May God help the Pastor, the church, the young lady (now grown) and may He lead, bless, protect and heal each one.

[Annie]

Now aside from the case at hand, since it seems that none of us have the facts and we all agree that this young lady was abused, the next question is somewhat difficult. I think that at that age (the teenage years) the mother and daughter should have an open dialogue about issues of boys and things like that. Now I know that this was prOBably one of the last things I wanted to talk to my mom about at that age but, nonetheless, a mother should discuss with her daughter how to behave with boys and things of that nature. Now, if it came to a mother's attention that her daughter felt an attraction to an older man, I think that that should definitely be discussed. If I were the mother, I would tell her that at her age it is normal to feel attracted to boys, but it isn't appropriate to be attracted to older/married men. It would of course be wrong for her to act on any attraction and that should be reinforced. It is likely a passing crush as most things are at that age, but I would again discuss appropriate conduct. Now if that man made advances or did anything it is still on him because he is the adult in this situation and she is still the child.

Totally agree here. If the girl in this case had had this kind of dialogue with a mom who knew how to help her, things might have turned out very differently. Without this kind of loving, sensible guidance, girls can be so vulnerable to anyone that comes along and claims to love them.

While perhaps meaning something morally, I think if we go back to the case at hand, it more likely means something psychologically. If I am correct, this girl did not have a father in the picture. That could explain if she latched on to this man in any way. Also, in cases of sexual abuse, there is a strong tendency for the victim to blame themselves. This is why many cases of rape are not reported. I also wonder if there was any intimidation that caused her to claim an attraction or partial blame. Not saying that there was, but could be one possibility.

Mostly agree here. I'm no psychologist, and really don't know how much stock to put in common/pop psychology. I have heard these kinds of statements floating around, and I don't necessarily think they're true all of the time or false all of the time (victims blaming themselves, etc.). You're prOBably correct that your scenarios here could be possible. Even so, I wouldn't downplay any existing moral accountability, at least not with my daughter (and I wouldn't want my pastor to downplay it, either). If my daughter (who knows what adultery is, and understands God's commands regarding it) were to express that she felt attracted to a married man (which this girl had allegedly done in a conversation with the pastor before all of this happened), and did not heed my advice to stay away from him, and to fill her mind with Scripture, etc., then I would definitely feel that there was a moral failure to some degree on my daughter's part when, after the act, she admitted consensuality. I wouldn't feel that way if this were an isolated act in a vacuum (with an attacker she didn't know, or didn't like at all). Don't know if I'm making sense here. In short, I'm not trying to downplay the fact that this girl suffered greatly, or to assert that she was entirely responsible for what happened to her. She was young, vulnerable, and definitely taken advantage of. However, she was old enough to know right from wrong, and should have been guided to an understanding of any moral failure on her part (which I think did happen, but the outcry of some is "harsh!" "unfeeling!" "abusive!" "cover-up!"). Again, I certainly don't know all of the details, and will be glad to retract anything I've said that is false. I just think that people have a tendency to feel so sorry for the victim (I do, too! I feel sick over things like this!) that they refuse to believe that she could have, herself, failed morally as well.

[CPR]

Mostly agree here. I'm no psychologist, and really don't know how much stock to put in common/pop psychology. I have heard these kinds of statements floating around, and I don't necessarily think they're true all of the time or false all of the time (victims blaming themselves, etc.). You're prOBably correct that your scenarios here could be possible. Even so, I wouldn't downplay any existing moral accountability, at least not with my daughter (and I wouldn't want my pastor to downplay it, either). If my daughter (who knows what adultery is, and understands God's commands regarding it) were to express that she felt attracted to a married man (which this girl had allegedly done in a conversation with the pastor before all of this happened), and did not heed my advice to stay away from him, and to fill her mind with Scripture, etc., then I would definitely feel that there was a moral failure to some degree on my daughter's part when, after the act, she admitted consensuality. I wouldn't feel that way if this were an isolated act in a vacuum (with an attacker she didn't know, or didn't like at all). Don't know if I'm making sense here. In short, I'm not trying to downplay the fact that this girl suffered greatly, or to assert that she was entirely responsible for what happened to her. She was young, vulnerable, and definitely taken advantage of. However, she was old enough to know right from wrong, and should have been guided to an understanding of any moral failure on her part (which I think did happen, but the outcry of some is "harsh!" "unfeeling!" "abusive!" "cover-up!"). Again, I certainly don't know all of the details, and will be glad to retract anything I've said that is false. I just think that people have a tendency to feel so sorry for the victim (I do, too! I feel sick over things like this!) that they refuse to believe that she could have, herself, failed morally as well.

I understand what you're saying. It seems that this girl dealt with some difficult (to say the least) situations in her life and I hope she was able to find some trustworthy adult guidance and love. Prayers for everyone involved that that the truth will prevail and everyone will get the healing that they need that God can provide.

[Kubel]

Was it wrong for the pastor to make a 15 year old rape victim stand before the congregation and confess because she suffered from statutory rape at the hands of church member who is a 51 year old man?

With the information given in this article, if its accurate, he was clearly in the wrong

Ok, now it's becoming clearer. Rape and statutory rape are completely different. I was initially under the impression that it was rape, not statutory rape. Most of time when someone is charged with statutory rape, the victim gives consent (which in the eyes of the law, can't happen because of their age, thus there is no consent, thus it's 'statutory rape').

At first, I was shocked that a pastor would force a rape victim to do church discipline... but I guess that's not the whole story.

[CPR]

Ok, now it's becoming clearer. Rape and statutory rape are completely different. I was initially under the impression that it was rape, not statutory rape. Most of time when someone is charged with statutory rape, the victim gives consent (which in the eyes of the law, can't happen because of their age, thus there is no consent, thus it's 'statutory rape').

At first, I was shocked that a pastor would force a rape victim to do church discipline... but I guess that's not the whole story.

Everything that I've heard and read still points to rape (he supposedly came to her house and forced himself on her). Regardless, she seems to be a troubled young lady and I think that we are jumping way ahead of ourselves to assume she gave any sort of consent. Even if she felt some sort of "attraction" to him. Does that justify in any way what he did or put even a fraction of the blame on her? Absolutely not! He is the adult and she is the child who is being taken advantage of by an authority figure. Statutory rape is the sexual abuse of a minor. It is extremely serious.

[JerryNumbers]

I did not see nothing about her giving consent, it seemed the opposite to me, and she was underage, so its statutory rape, under the law she cannot give consent at her age.

The whole thing troubles me, it seems if that whole church dropped the ball, and that is so sad. For they put way to much pressure on this young 15 year old.

This is stated in that article by a member of that church..

"I can remember saying to my husband, I don't understand it's any of our business why this is being brought up," Earle said."

I agree, this should have totally been handed over to the police, instead it seems a church member is being protected who has violated an underage girl.

Cover ups when found always looks bad, and this smells like a cover up. That is with the information that is available to us.

Wow, even some real good people make wrong choices.

I had a pastor, I thought highly of him too, years ago that make a wrong choice on an issue, in the end it finally came out, the man he helped, help cover his thieving, was nothing but a common thief while being one of the churches deacons. He finally got caught, and he had stole stuff from all over town and had it stored in a barn on his place. They said there were several pickup loads of stolen goods claimed by many different people.

Oh, if the pastor had not intervened at that time he would have prOBably been found out at that time, them there would not have been 4 to 6 more years of stealing.

[Annie]

I did not see nothing about her giving consent, it seemed the opposite to me, and she was underage, so its statutory rape, under the law she cannot give consent at her age.

Jerry, as I alluded to earlier, there is a difference between legal standing, expressed in legal terminology, and actual spiritual state, expressed in biblical terminology. As Kubel said, "statutory rape" indicates a level of consensuality (but a minor, by legal definition, is not capable of consenting, so it is still called "rape"). According to the biblical definition, on the spiritual level, however, any amount of sexual consensuality outside of marriage is adultery/fornication, which is sin. As I said before, if I had any reason to believe that my teenage daughter had been at all consensual in a sexual act with a married man (especially after previously admitting an attraction to him and being warned to stay away from him), I would deal with the issue on a spiritual/heart level, no matter what the legal definition of the act was, and I would want my pastor to do the same. To approach it any other way would be to harm my daughter spiritually. This is the church's duty: to shepherd and discipline its members on the spiritual level. A church's "heart-ministry" to the girl has nothing to do with legal terminology, but everything to do with spiritual understanding and accountability.

The whole thing troubles me, it seems if that whole church dropped the ball, and that is so sad. For they put way to much pressure on this young 15 year old.

Could be, Jerry. Then again, the world (who thinks only in legal and psychological terms) doesn't understand the nature of the church's ministry.

This is stated in that article by a member of that church..

"I can remember saying to my husband, I don't understand it's any of our business why this is being brought up," Earle said."

I agree, this should have totally been handed over to the police, instead it seems a church member is being protected who has violated an underage girl.

Cover ups when found always looks bad, and this smells like a cover up. That is with the information that is available to us.

I disagree, Jerry...but, then again, I believe the pastor (who has proven himself trustworthy over many years of service) when he says that he called the police repeatedly and waited in vain for them to come and arrest Ernie Willis. I'm not sure how anything he did or said covered up anything.