Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 10 killed

[Crushmaster]

Ridiculous. I saw the video yesterday, and it was quite interesting.
Thanks for posting.
God bless,
Joel ><>.
2 Chronicles 7:14.

[Covenanter]

I accept that the US will give support to Israel as an ally, but why do Christians give unquestioning support to that godless nation that continues to reject Jesus os Lord & Christ & treats non-Jews as second class citizens?

[John81]

It should be remembered that the concept of where international waters and territorial waters begins/ends is not universal. It should also be remembered that in some instances the time factor and/or danger factor makes it necessary to deal with an incident in "international waters" rather than waiting to take action within territorial waters.

Like it or not, Israel is a nation and they have the right to protect their borders, deal with their internal matters according to their own best interests and to take measures to protect the security of their people and nation.

Anyone who attempts to run a blockade has established themselves as a beligerent and have invited hostile actions upon themselves.

I support Israel in this because I've studied the history of modern Israel and her neighbors so I'm well aware of the truth of the "Palestinian" issue. As well, I believe Israel had the right to act in her own defense and in defense of her security actions just as any other nation has the same rights.

It should be noted that 5 of the 6 ships complied when the Israeli forces land. Only one ship, the ship loaded with militants out to provoke a fight, had any incidence and the death and injury which resulted due to their provocation.

Given that Israel has a blockade established, Israel could have simply blown the ships out of the water for violating the blockade. Instead Israel went to great effort to uphold their blockade in a peaceful manner but the militants on one ship were determined to provoke hostility.

It's a lie that Gaza has no support as Israel ensures tons of international aid enters Gaza daily and Israel offered to escort this falsly termed "humanitarian" flotilla to a specific port so the cargo could be inspected and non-military cargo would have been sent into Gasa. This offer was refused because their aim was not to help the people in Gaza but to provoke hostility which they knew the media and world would turn against Israel.

[Anon]

You know...I was just thinking this morning that if the Bible were NOT true, there would be absolutely no reason for this worldwide hatred of Israel. Only the Bible explains it. Otherwise, it would be extremely illogical, because they are no worse than any other country...and their religious practices are not disturbing anyone, and they are more peaceful than their middle eastern neighbors.... if God were taken out of the picture, the logical thing would be that the entire world would stick up for Israel against the rogue neighbors it has. The only thing that explains this hatred is that the Bible is indeed true.

[John81]

You know...I was just thinking this morning that if the Bible were NOT true, there would be absolutely no reason for this worldwide hatred of Israel. Only the Bible explains it. Otherwise, it would be extremely illogical, because they are no worse than any other country...and their religious practices are not disturbing anyone, and they are more peaceful than their middle eastern neighbors.... if God were taken out of the picture, the logical thing would be that the entire world would stick up for Israel against the rogue neighbors it has. The only thing that explains this hatred is that the Bible is indeed true.

Excellent post Suzy! The tiny area of Israel is rather insignificant outside the truth of Scripture. Why else would the entire world focus so much attention on this tiny strip of land of little worldly value?

[JerryNumbers]

So true.

The world hates anyone who has connections to the living God. Perhaps this helps us understand this a bit better.

Joh 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
Joh 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
Joh 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

[HappyChristian]

Israel should have waited for the ships to cross into its waters before boarding them. Boarding a civilian ship in international waters like that, and then shooting people who rightfully resisted piracy, was a big mistake on Israels part. The biggest part that the pro-Israel supporters miss is the fact that this all occurred in international waters. Israel had absolutely no right to do what they did.

Kubel, this ship was loaded with people there to FIGHT the Israelis - not "civilians" in our sense of the term. Watch this video...before the Israelis even boarded...

It's intersting that Al Jazeera had reporters on that ship. And those "civilians" were armed...and the ship had arms. Funny, I didn't know arms were humanitarian. And it's even more interesting how so many are yakking about international waters, but when Muslims attacked one of our Navy ships in international waters - it was okay.

Suzi's right. The Bible tells us that Israel will be hated. And she is. She is also lied about. Constantly. How else do you think hysteria against her can be whipped up?

I don't think we are getting the whole story. Why don't I think so? Simply because the story is coming from Israel haters.

And it continues...
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/06/01/turkish-fm-on-flotilla-this-is-like-our-911-or-something/

Israel's reply:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/02/netanyahu-defends-militarys-raid-hate-boat-bound-gaza/

Netanyahu, responding to the outrage, said Wednesday that Israeli forces were not met by any "serious violence" on the other five ships and so no serious injuries occurred. But he said on the Turkish-flagged ship where the fighting broke out, "Something very different happened."

"They were met with a vicious mOB. They were stabbed. They were clubbed. They were fired upon," Netanyahu said. "The attackers had prepared their violent action in advance. ... These weren't pacifists. They weren't peace activists. These were violent supporters of terrorism."

The prime minister said the Israeli soldiers had to act in self defense -- he said that he talked to one who had been shot in the stomach and knee.

Netanyahu, citing the activists' support for Hamas, said Israel will continue to assert its right to inspect cargo headed for the Gaza Strip out of concern that weapons could be smuggled in for groups like Hamas.

"Israel regrets the loss of life but we will never apologize for defending ourselves," he said.

[CPR]

I agree that Israel has a right to defend itself as all sovereign nations do. However, this was indeed an aid ship in international waters. Turns out it was carrying medical supplies, water, construction supplies, toys, clothes and the like.

[Covenanter]

John81:
Adequate supplies of food, medicine and other necessary goods are delivered regularly to Palestinians in Gaza — and by the Israelis.

My link
For decades Israel occupied Gaza reducing its people to total dependency as day-laborers in Israel. No infrastructure was built (no sewage, no paved roads, no sanitation system, no modern power grid etc). During the Oslo years, Israel remained in control of Gaza, allowing no independent Palestinian commerce to develop with the outside world. When Israel evacuated Gaza, they did so unilaterally and yet retained total control over all access and egress, thus insuring that the strip's economy would remain stunted with more than 65% of the population living below the poverty level and youth unemployment averaging 80% since the mid 1990s.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Covenanter

[Covenanter]

Excellent post Suzy! The tiny area of Israel is rather insignificant outside the truth of Scripture. Why else would the entire world focus so much attention on this tiny strip of land of little worldly value?

That 'logic' applies to Iraq, Iran, N. Korea, Afghanistan, Burma ....

Jesus & his Apostles say nothing about any restoration of the state of Israel, only its demise. In Rom. 11, Paul writes about their salvation, not restoration as a nation.

Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

[Covenanter]

If we cast our minds back to the immediate post WW2 period, Jews throughout much of Europe had been severely persecuted & wanted out - a homeland. British & American theology looked for the restoration of Israel, & the fiction of "a land without a people for a people without a land" was promulgated. They logic of giving the Palestinian territory to displaced Jews, thus displacing Arab Christians & Moslems who had no part in the holocaust has never been clear to the Palestinians. The attitude of the surrounding Moslem nations was not constructive, & their ineffectual attack on the newly formed Israel only gave impetus to the Zionist terrorists to drive out the indigenous population.

Jews had been settling in Palestine for some years before the war. The "Balfour Declaration" (1917) showed British support for such settlement:

His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this OBject, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

Zionist terrorist groups were becoming increasingly active. THey bombed the HQ of the British mandate - King David Hotel, killing 91 people.

Once the Zionist terrorists had their state, they could denounce the Arabs as terrorists, & the ensuring history is terrorism & reprisals, with everyone guilty.

Meanwhile across the Atlantic in the USA - the land of the free, the white settlers had effectively eliminated the indigenous population, & were trying to keep the descendants of the African slaves in subjection. When Paul ROBeson returned as a superstar to speak up for his people, he was denounced as a communist & effectively silenced, both as performer & speaker. His passport was withdrawn for 8 years & his records were withdrawn from sale.

When Martin Luther King led the civil rights movement, he was gunned down.

The American support for Israel is derived from Bible prophecy - Old Covenant prophecy, NOT New. That prejudices the US attitude, & the Jewish lOBby precludes any OBjective treatment of the Israel/Palestine situation.

I do not believe a 2-state solution is now possible, nor will it result in a fair distribution of resources - the Israelis have made sure of that with their settlements & appropriation of water, making Palestinian agriculture impossible. Within Israel, the Jewish citizenship makes Christians (particularly converts) & Moslems at best second class citizens.

The proper solution is a single state, with full equality for all minorities, & massive aid for the deprived Palestinians. At present they have no hope for an acceptable future - & that is what the Zionists want - all the Palestinians to give up & go.

[John81]

That 'logic' applies to Iraq, Iran, N. Korea, Afghanistan, Burma ....

Jesus & his Apostles say nothing about any restoration of the state of Israel, only its demise. In Rom. 11, Paul writes about their salvation, not restoration as a nation.

Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Regardless of whether one believes this incarnation of Israel is a matter of prophetic events or not, Israel is still a reminder of God and a thorn of contention to a wicked world.

None of the nations you mentioned are hated by the world, focused upon virtually 24/7 by the world or subject to continual scrutiny and assault by the liberal media.

[John81]

If we cast our minds back to the immediate post WW2 period, Jews throughout much of Europe had been severely persecuted & wanted out - a homeland. British & American theology looked for the restoration of Israel, & the fiction of "a land without a people for a people without a land" was promulgated. They logic of giving the Palestinian territory to displaced Jews, thus displacing Arab Christians & Moslems who had no part in the holocaust has never been clear to the Palestinians. The attitude of the surrounding Moslem nations was not constructive, & their ineffectual attack on the newly formed Israel only gave impetus to the Zionist terrorists to drive out the indigenous population.

Jews had been settling in Palestine for some years before the war. The "Balfour Declaration" (1917) showed British support for such settlement:

Zionist terrorist groups were becoming increasingly active. THey bombed the HQ of the British mandate - King David Hotel, killing 91 people.

Once the Zionist terrorists had their state, they could denounce the Arabs as terrorists, & the ensuring history is terrorism & reprisals, with everyone guilty.

Meanwhile across the Atlantic in the USA - the land of the free, the white settlers had effectively eliminated the indigenous population, & were trying to keep the descendants of the African slaves in subjection. When Paul ROBeson returned as a superstar to speak up for his people, he was denounced as a communist & effectively silenced, both as performer & speaker. His passport was withdrawn for 8 years & his records were withdrawn from sale.

When Martin Luther King led the civil rights movement, he was gunned down.

The American support for Israel is derived from Bible prophecy - Old Covenant prophecy, NOT New. That prejudices the US attitude, & the Jewish lOBby precludes any OBjective treatment of the Israel/Palestine situation.

I do not believe a 2-state solution is now possible, nor will it result in a fair distribution of resources - the Israelis have made sure of that with their settlements & appropriation of water, making Palestinian agriculture impossible. Within Israel, the Jewish citizenship makes Christians (particularly converts) & Moslems at best second class citizens.

The proper solution is a single state, with full equality for all minorities, & massive aid for the deprived Palestinians. At present they have no hope for an acceptable future - & that is what the Zionists want - all the Palestinians to give up & go.

I'm not really sure what much of this has to do with the topic so I'll prOBably just touch on some of this.

During World War One the British, who at that time controlled the land they called Palestine, promised the Jews they could have that land to form a nation in. Part of this promise was to gain Jewish support for the British war effort and part as a means of getting some of the Jews out of England and Europe (the Jews have never been long popular wherever they go). After World War One Britain failed to keep their promise and this set the stage for conflict between Zionist Jews and Britain which occupied the land they had promised to the Jews.

During World War Two, even after learning of the troubles Jews were facing, Britain still refused to allow the Jews to immigrate to Palestine. Little remembered is that Hitler's Germany had attempted to broker a deal with Britain to allow the Jews to immigrate to Palestine in accord with the Balfour Declaration. Hitler had the support of Zionist Jews in his rise to power and during his early years in power. Hitler's original solution to the "Jewish prOBlem" was to assist them in immigrating to Palestine. Britian wouldn't allow this, even turning back ships loaded with Jews who were attempting to leave Germany/Europe for Palestine. That's when Hitler went to plan B.

Even after World War Two Britain was unwilling to give Palestine to the Jews as they had promised and instead gave Palestine to the UN to give to the Jews.

At that time in 1948 the land of Palestine was sparcely populated by various Arabs and some nomads. There were no "Palestinians" as such have never existed as a people and there has never been a nation of Palestine.

Like it or not, right of conquest has long held sway. The Arabs shouldn't cry about this because their "religion of peace" was built and spread by conquest.

I have no idea what the communist and/or communist sympathizer, anti-Christian, serial adulterer, liar and promoter of violence MLK has to do with Israel.

Also, it's a false idea that America has always supported Israel. While America did officially recognize Israel it was in words only. America refused to give aid to Israel when the Arabs attempted to eliminate them. Ironically, it was the Soviet Union and their communist satelite nation of Czechoslovkia which aided Israel. Afterwards it was the French which kept Israel alive. Long after this, and mostly because of the Cold War did America begin to actually support Israel. The Soviet Union shifted their support to the Arab nations so America began to support Israel as a means of checking the Soviets; not as a matter of biblical beliefs. Some later presidents, such as Reagan, did view Israel as being important due to their views of Revelation and such, but power and control remained the key reason for American support of Israel.

The "proper solution" is to allow Israel to determine her own destiny and for those pretend Palestinians to determine whether they want to continue this fight, go to their home Arab countries which don't want them, or to actually work to live in peace with Israel.

[pep_3000]

During World War One the British, who at that time controlled the land they called Palestine, promised the Jews they could have that land to form a nation in. Part of this promise was to gain Jewish support for the British war effort and part as a means of getting some of the Jews out of England and Europe (the Jews have never been long popular wherever they go). After World War One Britain failed to keep their promise and this set the stage for conflict between Zionist Jews and Britain which occupied the land they had promised to the Jews.

They also promised the land to the Arabs.

At that time in 1948 the land of Palestine was sparcely populated by various Arabs and some nomads. There were no "Palestinians" as such have never existed as a people and there has never been a nation of Palestine.

But there were more Palestinians than Arabs. When the UN decided on their partition plan, they gave the majority of the land to the minority population. Many of the people in the refugee camps still have the keys to their family houses back in Israel.

Also, it's a false idea that America has always supported Israel. While America did officially recognize Israel it was in words only. America refused to give aid to Israel when the Arabs attempted to eliminate them. Ironically, it was the Soviet Union and their communist satelite nation of Czechoslovkia which aided Israel. Afterwards it was the French which kept Israel alive. Long after this, and mostly because of the Cold War did America begin to actually support Israel. The Soviet Union shifted their support to the Arab nations so America began to support Israel as a means of checking the Soviets; not as a matter of biblical beliefs. Some later presidents, such as Reagan, did view Israel as being important due to their views of Revelation and such, but power and control remained the key reason for American support of Israel.

The history is pretty good, but the Soviet Union started supporting the Arab states before the 6 Day War in 1967, when Israel was still flying French planes. It was after that when the US started supplying Israel, in large part because of Cold War politics.

but power and control remained the key reason for American support of Israel.

That is the only reason that any country does anything. Period. Why did the USSR support Israel? They saw the kibbutz and thought that Israel might lean toward communism. Why did the French support Israel? They were fighting to hold on the Algeria and wanted to punish the Arab states for supporting the Algerians. That and both the French and the British were mad at Egypt for naturalizing the Suez Canal.
Countries act when they believe it is their best interest and that is it. Always have and always will. Countries are in an anarchistic relationship with each other. All this talk about international cooperation and law is meaningless, because they will not follow them when they believe their interests are at stake.

[JerryNumbers]

In this world, how many people, countries, really want peace? Very few. What most people & or countries want is everything to go in their favor, that is what most people call TRUE peace.