Self Righteous Sadducees

[Brother Rick]

Many times those who have no standards accuse those who have some standards as being self righteous Pharisees. Typically, those with some standards don’t care how those with no standards live their lives, so long as it doesn’t affect them or their children. This isn’t good enough for those with no standards; they must openly or secretly attack the “Pharisees” for living their lives differently.

People who do this are toxic, backbiting cowards. Ironically, when rebuked for gossiping, backbiting, and sowing discord, they refuse to apologize and in turn go full circle into what they accuse the other people of being, self righteous. Only now they are self righteous Sadducees.

[Pastor Matt]

I never say anything to those that have lower standards than me, but they seem to always have an comment to me about my standards. I think many times it is conviction, and the only way some people can deal with it is to lash out. It must make them feel good to put others down.

[John81]

I agree that conviction is a major factor. The light of one living right exposes their own darkness to themselves and they don't like what they see.

[JerryNumbers]

Accusing of self righteous seems to be a 1st line attack.


Good OBservation. My little humble though, could it be?


And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. John 3:19


They just don't care for the light?

[John81]

That's right Jerry. The avergage person wants to do as they please but they also want to be able to think of themselves as being a pretty good person. When a believer living for Christ is near their light exposes that false goodness.

[Anon]

I do think part of it is that unfortunately so many people HAVE been criticized by people with different standards, so they begin to associate people with standards as someone who will automatically judge them.

For instance...say I wear pants and I've been ostracized or criticized in the past by several people. The next time I see someone wearing only dresses, I very well may have a chip on my shoulder and begin to criticize them before they have a chance to criticize me.

Not making it right....but I just think that there are certain "circles" that have really made IFBs look mean and harsh and its ruined it for those who just simply want personal standards of separation.

I know even just in the past year, my family personally has been criticized and put down (not online, but in person) for "differences" we have...we aren't "strict" enough in this or that area..we don't do this or that "right"...and its by people who feel they have some sort of stronger Biblical living than we do. And we are in the ministry, even! So I can see why people are getting sick of seeing "people with higher standards."

Just, I guess, being devil's advocate here....

[John81]

I do think part of it is that unfortunately so many people HAVE been criticized by people with different standards, so they begin to associate people with standards as someone who will automatically judge them.

For instance...say I wear pants and I've been ostracized or criticized in the past by several people. The next time I see someone wearing only dresses, I very well may have a chip on my shoulder and begin to criticize them before they have a chance to criticize me.

Not making it right....but I just think that there are certain "circles" that have really made IFBs look mean and harsh and its ruined it for those who just simply want personal standards of separation.

I know even just in the past year, my family personally has been criticized and put down (not online, but in person) for "differences" we have...we aren't "strict" enough in this or that area..we don't do this or that "right"...and its by people who feel they have some sort of stronger Biblical living than we do. And we are in the ministry, even! So I can see why people are getting sick of seeing "people with higher standards."

Just, I guess, being devil's advocate here....

I wouldn't say you are being the devil's advocate here; more like bringing up another aspect of the issue. What has been discussed in previous posts here is true in a great many cases. At the same time, what you say is also true in some cases.

Of course, when it comes down to it the main thing is biblical correctness. There are some who hold to the highest biblical standards and are mature enough in the Lord to be living to a higher, or in some cases, even to a much higher standard than some others. For the most part, in my own experience, those who are truly living those higher standards are very humble in their own walk and very humble and kind if they discuss such with others.

In any event, what is sometimes the case is someone may truly have a proper biblical view of an issue and they allow this to puff them up and they look down upon those who don't understand. Rather than attempting to teach others in a humble manner, or lifting them up in humble prayer, they take on a confrontational and what has come to be known as a "holier than thou" attitude. While they may be biblically correct in their position, they are not biblically correct in their heart with regards to how they view and treat others regarding the position.

Then there are always those who are biblically wrong on an issue yet are so determined they are correct and they much blast all those who don't agree with them. Again, pride is a factor.

We would be negligent if we didn't consider our response to any of these. Some are certainly much more difficult to deal with than others but biblically speaking we are called to love them and deal with them kindly. At the same time, Scripture makes it clear there are times to separate ourselves from such.

One of the more difficult things I've faced over the years is those professing Christians who attack those, such as myself, who take the Bible literally. It can be difficult to not question their salvation when they proclaim so much of the Bible is not for us and since other parts there's no way we can live perfectly like that we are not even meant to try. These tend to be the ones who believe mostly in "Sunday Christianity" and live mostly like the world the other six days.

With regards specifically to IFBs, there seems to be a growing divide between some "camps" and also on a broader scale between those who see themselves as traditional IFBs (and some truely are while there are some who have prOBably stepped over into a form of Phariseeism), those who are of a more "moderate" nature but often see themselves as the "real" IFBs and the growing number of "mainstream" or outright liberal IFBs...which to me seems to be a great contradiction. Naturally, Satan wants to bring down IFBs as he has done to various denominations.

[trc123]

Personally, I don't see where puffing one's self up because of how righteous a life they are living as being right in the eyes of the Lord. I'm never boastful of such things as I know the sin within that can only be remedied by the blood of the Lamb and the working of the Holy Spirit. I have never been convicted by the way another man or woman lives; but rather conviction has always come from God's Word and the work of the Holy Spirit.

In a nut shell, others see your good works and glorify God, they should not glorify the believer.

1Pe 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

I'm sure that there are some examples of someone being under conviction because of another person's good works, it's just never happened to me.....and with that said, I've never personally met another who came to a saving knowledge of Christ except by the conviction of the Holy Spirit that their own personal sins were in need of forgiveness (never because they thought someone else was so pious). In fact the measure has always seemed to be the Lord Jesus Christ.

I'm not saying Godly and Bible based standards are not good as we all know they are. I am saying it is rather unseemly to be reveling in one's own righteous acts as being that which convicts others of their folly rather than giving that honor to the Godhead.

[John81]

Personally, I don't see where puffing one's self up because of how righteous a life they are living as being right in the eyes of the Lord. I'm never boastful of such things as I know the sin within that can only be remedied by the blood of the Lamb and the working of the Holy Spirit. I have never been convicted by the way another man or woman lives; but rather conviction has always come from God's Word and the work of the Holy Spirit.

In a nut shell, others see your good works and glorify God, they should not glorify the believer.

1Pe 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

I'm sure that there are some examples of someone being under conviction because of another person's good works, it's just never happened to me.....and with that said, I've never personally met another who came to a saving knowledge of Christ except by the conviction of the Holy Spirit that their own personal sins were in need of forgiveness (never because they thought someone else was so pious). In fact the measure has always seemed to be the Lord Jesus Christ.

I'm not saying Godly and Bible based standards are not good as we all know they are. I am saying it is rather unseemly to be reveling in one's own righteous acts as being that which convicts others of their folly rather than giving that honor to the Godhead.

For myself, I've never attempted to live an "okay enough" Christianity or a "Sunday Christianity", so I've never felt conviction that such may feel at times.

However, I have a couple of times in the past been in the precense of such a strong man of God that I could sense just how much closer that man was to God than I. One man in particular, who was in his late 80s, had such a close relationship with God yet he was such a humble man. This man knew the Scriptures intimately and he lived them the same way. I could "see" Christ in him and "feel" the power or intimacy or...it's so hard to describe... with Christ this man had when he prayed. Being around this man raised a conviction in my heart that I had so much farther to go, that I needed to be in the Word so much more than I was, that I needed to draw ever closer to Christ. It wasn't a "bad" conviction but rather a good conviction that pointed me to a humble and determined pursuit of holiness.

I've also been around the "holier than thou" crowd and the only "conviction" I felt in dealing with them was to determine not to allow myself to become that way.

A couple of Christians I knew in university both began watching Charismatic preachers on TV, reading their books and absorbing Charismatic teaching. It wasn't long before they were attempting to "correct" the rest of us. Not long after that they were proclaiming none of us were saved since none of us were speaking in tongues. It was very sad to see happen.

[JerryNumbers]

I wouldn't say you are being the devil's advocate here; more like bringing up another aspect of the issue. What has been discussed in previous posts here is true in a great many cases. At the same time, what you say is also true in some cases.

Of course, when it comes down to it the main thing is biblical correctness. There are some who hold to the highest biblical standards and are mature enough in the Lord to be living to a higher, or in some cases, even to a much higher standard than some others. For the most part, in my own experience, those who are truly living those higher standards are very humble in their own walk and very humble and kind if they discuss such with others.

In any event, what is sometimes the case is someone may truly have a proper biblical view of an issue and they allow this to puff them up and they look down upon those who don't understand. Rather than attempting to teach others in a humble manner, or lifting them up in humble prayer, they take on a confrontational and what has come to be known as a "holier than thou" attitude. While they may be biblically correct in their position, they are not biblically correct in their heart with regards to how they view and treat others regarding the position.

Then there are always those who are biblically wrong on an issue yet are so determined they are correct and they much blast all those who don't agree with them. Again, pride is a factor.

We would be negligent if we didn't consider our response to any of these. Some are certainly much more difficult to deal with than others but biblically speaking we are called to love them and deal with them kindly. At the same time, Scripture makes it clear there are times to separate ourselves from such.

One of the more difficult things I've faced over the years is those professing Christians who attack those, such as myself, who take the Bible literally. It can be difficult to not question their salvation when they proclaim so much of the Bible is not for us and since other parts there's no way we can live perfectly like that we are not even meant to try. These tend to be the ones who believe mostly in "Sunday Christianity" and live mostly like the world the other six days.

With regards specifically to IFBs, there seems to be a growing divide between some "camps" and also on a broader scale between those who see themselves as traditional IFBs (and some truely are while there are some who have prOBably stepped over into a form of Phariseeism), those who are of a more "moderate" nature but often see themselves as the "real" IFBs and the growing number of "mainstream" or outright liberal IFBs...which to me seems to be a great contradiction. Naturally, Satan wants to bring down IFBs as he has done to various denominations.

Anywhere God's Word is proclaimed, you will have this.

Joh 7:12 And there was much murmuring among the people concerning him: for some said, He is a good man: others said, Nay; but he deceiveth the people.

[trc123]

However, I have a couple of times in the past been in the precense of such a strong man of God that I could sense just how much closer that man was to God than I. One man in particular, who was in his late 80s, had such a close relationship with God yet he was such a humble man. This man knew the Scriptures intimately and he lived them the same way. I could "see" Christ in him and "feel" the power or intimacy or...it's so hard to describe... with Christ this man had when he prayed. Being around this man raised a conviction in my heart that I had so much farther to go, that I needed to be in the Word so much more than I was, that I needed to draw ever closer to Christ. It wasn't a "bad" conviction but rather a good conviction that pointed me to a humble and determined pursuit of holiness.

I must say I have been in the presence of a few men of God who were like this. Without exception they were missionaries to foreign fields (usually fields under conflict or much persecution). But I do understand what you are saying John!

[irishman]

May I jump in here? I have seen people exalt themselves because of standards, but I have also seen those that are offended by them and become critical and judgmental of them because of their standards! The issue is not really standards, it is "what is it that pleases the Lord?" I personally, believe in many standards for both men and women; some of these would be a point of contention for others, but I don't care! I am to please the Lord, in the way I see it, and regardless of the criticism, which will always come, I will maintain those beliefs because I think them to be scriptural! Our family has suffered much persecution because of standards, and that tells me that there must be something special about them, or others would not get so fired up about it! Sometimes the reactions of others can support our belief all the more when we realize that conviction speaks loudly often attacks that which it is convicted by.

I try not to look down on others for their lack of standards, (I won't say "I never do" as some have said, because in my heart I may to some extent, and sometimes) but I must admit that I do not understand their reasoning for not having them, other than they don't want to! The Pants issue, for ladies, is a "biggie" and often heated discussion lead to further resentment of the standard instead of the way it is presented.

[John81]

May I jump in here? I have seen people exalt themselves because of standards, but I have also seen those that are offended by them and become critical and judgmental of them because of their standards! The issue is not really standards, it is "what is it that pleases the Lord?" I personally, believe in many standards for both men and women; some of these would be a point of contention for others, but I don't care! I am to please the Lord, in the way I see it, and regardless of the criticism, which will always come, I will maintain those beliefs because I think them to be scriptural! Our family has suffered much persecution because of standards, and that tells me that there must be something special about them, or others would not get so fired up about it! Sometimes the reactions of others can support our belief all the more when we realize that conviction speaks loudly often attacks that which it is convicted by.

I try not to look down on others for their lack of standards, (I won't say "I never do" as some have said, because in my heart I may to some extent, and sometimes) but I must admit that I do not understand their reasoning for not having them, other than they don't want to! The Pants issue, for ladies, is a "biggie" and often heated discussion lead to further resentment of the standard instead of the way it is presented.

Indeed it's an issue which cuts both ways. I can't even count the number of times I've heard professing Christians tell me I shouldn't take the Bible so literally and try to live by it. After all they proclaim, it's not realistic. Maybe some of that was okay for "back then" but we can't live like that today.

Like the pants issue, music is a "biggie" as well and often becomes heated quickly as professing Christians attempt to defend listening to ungodly secular music.

[Brother Rick]

Christians have always suffered for being "non-conformists". During the first couple of centuries of church history, half of the time when Christians were killed by Pagan Rome it wasn't because they were Christians per se, it was because they were living CLEAN and separated lives.

[JerryNumbers]

Those who have no and or little godly Bible standards, that hardly ever attend church services in one of Jesus' Churches, will tell you they're just a spiritual as anyone else, that they love Jesus just as much as anyone else, and are following Jesus just as close as anyone else.

The only one they fool is their self and they do not like to hear God's truth proclaimed, whether on a message board, or talking with someone or while attending one of Jesus' Churches. When they hear it it cuts them to the heart, generally they will be murmurers and or strike back.

Jude 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

Most generally if they attend church services it will be at a church that does not hold to nor proclaim Bible standards.

I know of a family that feel out of church. He was the song leader, she was the piano player, they had started being late every Sunday morning and everyone had to wait on them. Their pastor got on to them just a bit, they got mad, and fell out of church.

In a few months they were divorced, about a year or so later he died. Since the divorce she has been married and remarried about 3 or 4 times, both of their sons has been constantly in and out of trouble.

Sometime back her father was sick in the hospital and I was visiting him and his wife was present. They started talking to me about their daughter, her wayward ways, all the trouble their grandsons were in, this old man and woman cried about this, asking me what could be done. they knew their daughter was saved, but back slidden, but feared their grandsons were lost and on the path to hell.

As for this husband and wife, they seem to have led their two sons right to the doors of hell, I feel sure if they don't repent before their death bot of them will spend eternity in hell, thanks to the example set by father and mother.


I'm telling you, when Christians turn from God, God does chasten them, in many different ways, I believe this husband when to far, and committed the sin-unto-death, and God called him home at an early age. Its not safe for a child of God to mock God, there are consequences to turning ones back on Him and turning to sin.