Doctrine

[Anon]

Curious...

Say somebody believes in Salvation through Jesus Christ by faith through grace...they believe in outreach and their goal in life is to reach others for Christ.

However they may believe in certain doctrines that IFB do not believe in, such as mild tongues speaking (which I do believe if its "real" its prOBably demonic but then don't IFB members have wickedness in their ranks, too?) or even possibly the loss of salvation if one renounces Christ....

You can still be saved and be misled in a few doctrinal areas, correct?

[irishman]

Curious...

Say somebody believes in Salvation through Jesus Christ by faith through grace...they believe in outreach and their goal in life is to reach others for Christ.

However they may believe in certain doctrines that IFB do not believe in, such as mild tongues speaking (which I do believe if its "real" its prOBably demonic but then don't IFB members have wickedness in their ranks, too?) or even possibly the loss of salvation if one renounces Christ....

You can still be saved and be misled in a few doctrinal areas, correct?

Depends on what those doctrinal areas are. Tongues? yes, they can still be saved, but confused, but eternal salvation? that is a whole new issue. I do not believe that anyone who claims to have trusted Christ merely by grace, can resort to works after that. it is still works all the way--although I have to admit that the Book of Galations was apparently written to just those kinds of "believers". they presumed to be saved by grace but "kept" saved by their own works. They called it "Judaism" then, and it was summarized by the keeping of the ;aw when they were under grace. Paul set the record straight, but whether they were true believers before that, who can say?

It is OBvious, in my opinion, that if works do not save us, they are no good for keeping that which we did not earn in the first place! The Lord saves us, as we know, and His blood is sufficient to keep us saved, so we cannot lose our salvation. It is directly related to salvation, while tongues, and some other doctrines are not. Edited May 21, 2010 by irishman

[HappyChristian]

I would certainly say so. If not, then doctrine becomes a work: believe a certain way (say baptism by immersion) or you'll not be saved.

The one requirement for salvation is repenting with full faith in Christ alone. That would seem to indicate, to me, that a person who believes you can lose your salvation isn't truly saved: because they weren't trusting Christ alone. However, there could be some who truly got saved and then were taught that one could lose salvation.

If we were to say that one who believes in speaking in tongues couldn't be saved, that is making not believing in speaking in tongues a part of salvation...and that is what legalism truly is. Adding requirements to salvation that God never put there.

We were posting at the same time, irishman.

[Anon]

Some passages in Scripture could be interpreted to mean that if you purposely reject Christ, you can renounce your salvation...I don't necessarily think that mistake would make their original salvation null and void...?

I was just thinking because was talking to a Pentecostal with a Baptist background and I have to say she is doing more to reach folks for Christ than most IFB's I know....

[irishman]

She may be doing more than me too, but it reminds me of an illustration I heard recently (kinda gross, but drives the point home wonderfully);

You take a dead opossum and toss him to the side of the road, and three or four days later come back and look at him' He has grown! His growth though is rotten, from swelling. if you cut him open, the stench is almost unbearable, and who knows what sorts of critters you'll find there.

Just because he grows, does not mean it is of the Lord. Same with certain works (like even leading people to Christ). I believe that some Pentecostals are saved, but not because of tongues or the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" as they call it, but because of their belief in Christ, just as we are. If they continue to believe in certain doctrines, such as losing your salvation, then they are depending on themselves, their works, and not on Christ. We must continue in Him in the same we we entered into Him, by faith. Then it appears that the Holy Spirit is not leading them. incidentally, Catholics have several erroneous doctrines that are blasphemous and/or sacrilegious, and I believe that, though anyone CAN be saved, if they continue to make the blood of Christ of none effect, they are not saved. The Holy Spirit will lead them out from there.

Edited May 21, 2010 by irishman

[John81]

Many new believers, if not properly discipled, find themselves questioning their salvation. Part of this is because of their flesh and part because Satan loves to sow confusion and doubt.

Those who have not been properly discipled or at least taught the truth of eternal salvation, or "once saved, always saved", may doubt or question their salvation when they see their flesh rise up, when they are assaulted by Satan and they face defeat. They may read some of those verses Suzy referred to and truly wonder whether or not they were actually saved to begin with or if they have lost their salvation or wonder if such is possible and wonder how their salvation stands at that moment.

Likely as not, most (if not all) of such folks are truly saved but they are ignorant of what Scripture says on this matter. If properly discipled or taught on this subject, and they are open to learning, the Spirit will open the truth of God's Word to them.

Over the years I've read of many Christians, including a good many pastors who early in their walk with the Lord went through a time like this. In each case they sincerely sought the Lord in prayer about this and in one way or another the Lord brought them to understand their salvation was/is eternal.

The ones I more wonder about are those who have been saved a long while, have sat under good preaching, have read and studied the Word and yet believe to whatever extent they must be "good enough" to maintain their salvation. Did they accept Christ unconditionally or did they accept Christ believing they had to be good too? If the former, they could be saved yet still somehow ignorant of the truth in this area but if the latter, they were not accepting Christ and Christ alone for salvation.

[JAHinton]

Doctrine is important and I in no way would belittle the importance of doctrine. The person who says I am not interested in doctrine is saying I am stupid and I want to stay that way. But what roll does it play in salvation.

I was saved in OctOBer of 1969 at the First Baptist Church of Monticello, IL. I was raised in a church that believed I could loose my salvation. I don't know exactly when but sometime that winter I became thoroughtly convinced of my security. How any one can study the Bible and not be is beyond me. When then was I saved in OctOBer or later that winter.

Certain truths about salvation were not known to me in OctOBer. It took time for some of them to penetrate. Was I any less saved? "For by grace are you saved and that not of yourself" If my knowledge of Bible Doctrine is part of being saved then it is not completely by grace is in part of my self. This is a direct contradiction of scripture previously quoted.

[irishman]

Doctrine is important and I in no way would belittle the importance of doctrine. The person who says I am not interested in doctrine is saying I am stupid and I want to stay that way. But what roll does it play in salvation.

I was saved in OctOBer of 1969 at the First Baptist Church of Monticello, IL. I was raised in a church that believed I could loose my salvation. I don't know exactly when but sometime that winter I became thoroughtly convinced of my security. How any one can study the Bible and not be is beyond me. When then was I saved in OctOBer or later that winter.

Certain truths about salvation were not known to me in OctOBer. It took time for some of them to penetrate. Was I any less saved? "For by grace are you saved and that not of yourself" If my knowledge of Bible Doctrine is part of being saved then it is not completely by grace is in part of my self. This is a direct contradiction of scripture previously quoted.

OBviously it is not doctrine that saves us, but the understanding of it is significant to lead us to Christ. remember the explanation of the parable of the Sower? Jesus said that they first group received the seed, but understood it not: "When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side." (Mt. 13:19, but refers to v.3) It was sown in his heart, but not in his head! Both work together to grasp the doctrines that Jesus taught. This is the seed which "fell by the wayside."

[1Timothy115]

Once saved always saved. Tongues is just error in doctrine.

[OFIB Preacher]

Excellent post!
AMEN!

She may be doing more than me too, but it reminds me of an illustration I heard recently (kinda gross, but drives the point home wonderfully);

You take a dead opossum and toss him to the side of the road, and three or four days later come back and look at him' He has grown! His growth though is rotten, from swelling. if you cut him open, the stench is almost unbearable, and who knows what sorts of critters you'll find there.

Just because he grows, does not mean it is of the Lord. Same with certain works (like even leading people to Christ). I believe that some Pentecostals are saved, but not because of tongues or the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" as they call it, but because of their belief in Christ, just as we are. If they continue to believe in certain doctrines, such as losing your salvation, then they are depending on themselves, their works, and not on Christ. We must continue in Him in the same we we entered into Him, by faith. Then it appears that the Holy Spirit is not leading them. incidentally, Catholics have several erroneous doctrines that are blasphemous and/or sacrilegious, and I believe that, though anyone CAN be saved, if they continue to make the blood of Christ of none effect, they are not saved. The Holy Spirit will lead them out from there.

[OFIB Preacher]

Many new believers, if not properly discipled, find themselves questioning their salvation. Part of this is because of their flesh and part because Satan loves to sow confusion and doubt.

Those who have not been properly discipled or at least taught the truth of eternal salvation, or "once saved, always saved", may doubt or question their salvation when they see their flesh rise up, when they are assaulted by Satan and they face defeat. They may read some of those verses Suzy referred to and truly wonder whether or not they were actually saved to begin with or if they have lost their salvation or wonder if such is possible and wonder how their salvation stands at that moment.

Likely as not, most (if not all) of such folks are truly saved but they are ignorant of what Scripture says on this matter. If properly discipled or taught on this subject, and they are open to learning, the Spirit will open the truth of God's Word to them.

Over the years I've read of many Christians, including a good many pastors who early in their walk with the Lord went through a time like this. In each case they sincerely sought the Lord in prayer about this and in one way or another the Lord brought them to understand their salvation was/is eternal.

The ones I more wonder about are those who have been saved a long while, have sat under good preaching, have read and studied the Word and yet believe to whatever extent they must be "good enough" to maintain their salvation. Did they accept Christ unconditionally or did they accept Christ believing they had to be good too? If the former, they could be saved yet still somehow ignorant of the truth in this area but if the latter, they were not accepting Christ and Christ alone for salvation.

Firstly, our pastor said something about this, wednesday night! He said, around a week after the LORD saved him, (I believe he said) he had a bad thought! He went to his pastor and told him he thought he wasn't saved! His pastor asked him why and he said, it was because he had that bad thought! His pastor told him that he's been there, to which he replied, "you?" All I'm saying is, people need to be tought!

Secondly, amen!

[Wilchbla]

Curious...

Say somebody believes in Salvation through Jesus Christ by faith through grace...they believe in outreach and their goal in life is to reach others for Christ.

However they may believe in certain doctrines that IFB do not believe in, such as mild tongues speaking (which I do believe if its "real" its prOBably demonic but then don't IFB members have wickedness in their ranks, too?) or even possibly the loss of salvation if one renounces Christ....

You can still be saved and be misled in a few doctrinal areas, correct?

Yes. You don't have to be correct on all your doctrines in order to be saved. NOBody would prOBably be saved if this were the case. I honestly believe a lot more Roman Catholics are saved than we take for granted. They have just "fallen from grace" like the Galatians did.