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Saved or Savable?


Live4Him

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The first is impossible - or else everyone that has lived since then would be automatically saved.

Jesus paid for our salvation - did all that was necessary to save us - but He will not save us unless we receive Him and believe the Gospel.

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The first is impossible - or else everyone that has lived since then would be automatically saved.

Jesus paid for our salvation - did all that was necessary to save us - but He will not save us unless we receive Him and believe the Gospel.


According to the Reformed doctrine of grace, limited atonement, it's possible. But that's my biggest contention with Calvinism--I just can't accept that I was born saved.

Does the Bible ever explicitly say one way or the other which one is true?

By the way, thank you for your response. :)
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Yes, the Bible indicates a person is saved (born again, becomes a child of God, etc.) only when they receive the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour - when they believe the Gospel. See John 1:12; Ephesians 1:13-14.

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Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Ro 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

The Bible is quite clear, those who believe on Jesus, shall be saved, those who do not believe on Jesus, shall not be saved.

And of course we know there is going to be a resurrection of the save, they that have done good, a resurrection of the lost, they that have done evil.

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

And that only the saved will enter heaven, and the lost will be cast into the lake of fire.



Live4Him's question:
The moment Christ died on the cross, did He save you and reconcile you to God or did He make you savable and make it possible for you to be reconciled to God?

If the above was true, that at the moment Christ died on the cross, He reconciled everyone to God, them the Bible would not tell about people being cast into the lake of fire, and its clear, all of those who stand before the last judgment at the great while throne will be cast into the lake of fire.

Re 20:11

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That's good.
My biggest contention with Calvinism is that it's proponents twist God's Word into something that misrepresents the true and living God as something that He is not. It is a slander against His Love, His Holiness and His character. It preaches a Jesus who died for only a select few and it preaches a God who created some for the express purpose of sending them to Hell for His glory. It preaches another Jesus.

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Your right, but many can't seem to understand by teaching and believeing that doctrine that they are trying to worship a god that does not exist. Our living God offers mercy and grace to whosoever will, and has not created anyone to be doomed to hell for His pleasure.

2Pe

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I don't want to start a debate or anything, but I honestly want to know the non-Calvinistic way of looking at verses such as Romans 8:28-30, Ephesians 1:11 and Revelation 17:8. Again, I don't want to start any debate, I would just like to know the alternative way of looking at verses like those. :)

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Notice that, as in the two passages you posted, (Ephesians 1:11 ands Romans 8:29-30)every mention of 'predestination' or'the elect', in this context, is always addressed to or about a group, not individuals. "Elect", as I understand it, has to do with service and "Predestination" has to do with being conformed to the image of Christ. When you get saved, you become part of the group "the elect" and you also become part of those "predestinated" to become conformed tot he image of Christ. Someone else can prOBably explain it better than I.

As far as the Revelation 17 verse goes, notice it says "FROM" the foundation of the world. I think it simply means that everyone who never got saved, FROM Cain down throughout history to the present, and did not have their name written in the Book Of Life. But I could be wrong.

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What works good, is to look at verses that firmly states that God does not want any to be lost.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

For you see, its very clear, God is longsuffering, does not want any to be lost, BUT, He will not force anyone to be saved.

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Ro

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Those who teach that just certain people can be saved, and everyone else is doomed to hell, preach another Gospel, and they are not of the living God nor Christ.


That is a very dangerous statement to make. Some great men of God, such as Charles Spurgeon, were Calvinists. Of course, hyper-Calvinism (which today has somewhat become "mainstream" Calvinism) is very dangerous as well.


Notice that, as in the two passages you posted, (Ephesians 1:11 ands Romans 8:29-30)every mention of 'predestination' or'the elect', in this context, is always addressed to or about a group, not individuals. "Elect", as I understand it, has to do with service and "Predestination" has to do with being conformed to the image of Christ. When you get saved, you become part of the group "the elect" and you also become part of those "predestinated" to become conformed tot he image of Christ. Someone else can prOBably explain it better than I.

As far as the Revelation 17 verse goes, notice it says "FROM" the foundation of the world. I think it simply means that everyone who never got saved, FROM Cain down throughout history to the present, and did not have their name written in the Book Of Life. But I could be wrong.


That kind of makes sense...
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That is a very dangerous statement to make. Some great men of God, such as Charles Spurgeon, were Calvinists. Of course, hyper-Calvinism (which today has somewhat become "mainstream" Calvinism) is very dangerous as well.



That kind of makes sense...


Not dangerous at all, the Bible is quite clear for those who take God at His Word, whosoever believeth can be saved.

1Co
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Not dangerous at all, the Bible is quite clear for those who take God at His Word, whosoever believeth can be saved.


This is the prOBlem. True Calvinism teaches whosoever believeth can be saved. Calvinists simply have a different idea than you about who actually will believe.
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