Jump to content
  • Welcome to Online Baptist

    Free to join.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Live4Him

Saved or Savable?

Recommended Posts

I have a question.

The moment Christ died on the cross, did He save you and reconcile you to God or did He make you savable and make it possible for you to be reconciled to God?

What do you think and why?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The first is impossible - or else everyone that has lived since then would be automatically saved.

Jesus paid for our salvation - did all that was necessary to save us - but He will not save us unless we receive Him and believe the Gospel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The first is impossible - or else everyone that has lived since then would be automatically saved.

Jesus paid for our salvation - did all that was necessary to save us - but He will not save us unless we receive Him and believe the Gospel.


According to the Reformed doctrine of grace, limited atonement, it's possible. But that's my biggest contention with Calvinism--I just can't accept that I was born saved.

Does the Bible ever explicitly say one way or the other which one is true?

By the way, thank you for your response. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, the Bible indicates a person is saved (born again, becomes a child of God, etc.) only when they receive the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour - when they believe the Gospel. See John 1:12; Ephesians 1:13-14.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Ro 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

The Bible is quite clear, those who believe on Jesus, shall be saved, those who do not believe on Jesus, shall not be saved.

And of course we know there is going to be a resurrection of the save, they that have done good, a resurrection of the lost, they that have done evil.

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

And that only the saved will enter heaven, and the lost will be cast into the lake of fire.



Live4Him's question:
The moment Christ died on the cross, did He save you and reconcile you to God or did He make you savable and make it possible for you to be reconciled to God?

If the above was true, that at the moment Christ died on the cross, He reconciled everyone to God, them the Bible would not tell about people being cast into the lake of fire, and its clear, all of those who stand before the last judgment at the great while throne will be cast into the lake of fire.

Re 20:11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


According to the Reformed doctrine of grace, limited atonement, it's possible. But that's my biggest contention with Calvinism--I just can't accept that I was born saved.


Are you in a church where they are teaching that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's good.
My biggest contention with Calvinism is that it's proponents twist God's Word into something that misrepresents the true and living God as something that He is not. It is a slander against His Love, His Holiness and His character. It preaches a Jesus who died for only a select few and it preaches a God who created some for the express purpose of sending them to Hell for His glory. It preaches another Jesus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your right, but many can't seem to understand by teaching and believeing that doctrine that they are trying to worship a god that does not exist. Our living God offers mercy and grace to whosoever will, and has not created anyone to be doomed to hell for His pleasure.

2Pe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't want to start a debate or anything, but I honestly want to know the non-Calvinistic way of looking at verses such as Romans 8:28-30, Ephesians 1:11 and Revelation 17:8. Again, I don't want to start any debate, I would just like to know the alternative way of looking at verses like those. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Notice that, as in the two passages you posted, (Ephesians 1:11 ands Romans 8:29-30)every mention of 'predestination' or'the elect', in this context, is always addressed to or about a group, not individuals. "Elect", as I understand it, has to do with service and "Predestination" has to do with being conformed to the image of Christ. When you get saved, you become part of the group "the elect" and you also become part of those "predestinated" to become conformed tot he image of Christ. Someone else can prOBably explain it better than I.

As far as the Revelation 17 verse goes, notice it says "FROM" the foundation of the world. I think it simply means that everyone who never got saved, FROM Cain down throughout history to the present, and did not have their name written in the Book Of Life. But I could be wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What works good, is to look at verses that firmly states that God does not want any to be lost.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

For you see, its very clear, God is longsuffering, does not want any to be lost, BUT, He will not force anyone to be saved.

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Ro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those who teach that just certain people can be saved, and everyone else is doomed to hell, preach another Gospel, and they are not of the living God nor Christ.


That is a very dangerous statement to make. Some great men of God, such as Charles Spurgeon, were Calvinists. Of course, hyper-Calvinism (which today has somewhat become "mainstream" Calvinism) is very dangerous as well.


Notice that, as in the two passages you posted, (Ephesians 1:11 ands Romans 8:29-30)every mention of 'predestination' or'the elect', in this context, is always addressed to or about a group, not individuals. "Elect", as I understand it, has to do with service and "Predestination" has to do with being conformed to the image of Christ. When you get saved, you become part of the group "the elect" and you also become part of those "predestinated" to become conformed tot he image of Christ. Someone else can prOBably explain it better than I.

As far as the Revelation 17 verse goes, notice it says "FROM" the foundation of the world. I think it simply means that everyone who never got saved, FROM Cain down throughout history to the present, and did not have their name written in the Book Of Life. But I could be wrong.


That kind of makes sense...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



That is a very dangerous statement to make. Some great men of God, such as Charles Spurgeon, were Calvinists. Of course, hyper-Calvinism (which today has somewhat become "mainstream" Calvinism) is very dangerous as well.



That kind of makes sense...


Not dangerous at all, the Bible is quite clear for those who take God at His Word, whosoever believeth can be saved.

1Co

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



Not dangerous at all, the Bible is quite clear for those who take God at His Word, whosoever believeth can be saved.


This is the prOBlem. True Calvinism teaches whosoever believeth can be saved. Calvinists simply have a different idea than you about who actually will believe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And they are wrong - God's Word teaches that salvation is freely offered to all of mankind, not just some few "elect" that "God sovereignly chose" to be saved. There are no Bible verses to back up God choosing some to Heaven and some to Hell, some to believe/have eternal life and some to reject Christ/be damned. The elect are those who have received Christ - they weren't elected to trust in Christ, they became the elect when they did so. All those who are truly saved are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ, to have an inheritance in Christ, etc.

This may help: What Is Biblical Predestination?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And they are wrong - God's Word teaches that salvation is freely offered to all of mankind, not just some few "elect" that "God sovereignly chose" to be saved. There are no Bible verses to back up God choosing some to Heaven and some to Hell, some to believe/have eternal life and some to reject Christ/be damned. The elect are those who have received Christ - they weren't elected to trust in Christ, they became the elect when they did so. All those who are truly saved are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ, to have an inheritance in Christ, etc.

This may help: What Is Biblical Predestination?


:thumb::amen:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And they are wrong - God's Word teaches that salvation is freely offered to all of mankind, not just some few "elect" that "God sovereignly chose" to be saved. There are no Bible verses to back up God choosing some to Heaven and some to Hell, some to believe/have eternal life and some to reject Christ/be damned. The elect are those who have received Christ - they weren't elected to trust in Christ, they became the elect when they did so. All those who are truly saved are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ, to have an inheritance in Christ, etc.

This may help: What Is Biblical Predestination?


Doesn't mean they aren't of Christ. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not all Calvinists are saved. All true believers are of Christ, but false doctrine is not of Christ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not all Calvinists are saved. All true believers are of Christ, but false doctrine is not of Christ.



:amen:


I agree, but it would be nice if those Calvinists that are saved would realize their error.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right - It is not the denomination that saves, but believing in the truth, and in the Lord Jesus Christ. Calvinism is not truth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Calvinism is bound by Scripture - taken in context, & read in conjunction with related Scriptures. Its the principle of interpreting Scripture by Scripture, so that one builds up a coherent doctrine.

Relevant questions are:

  • is everyone, or anyone, in a savable condition without the working of the Holy Spirit?
  • What is the work of the Holy Spirit in salvation?
  • Is repentance/faith in Christ/new birth a work of God in man, or a work of man?
  • Is the Gospel a free offer to everyone - take it or leave it by our will - or a command to repent & believe that is made possible by the working of the Holy Spirit?


Not dangerous at all, the Bible is quite clear for those who take God at His Word, whosoever believeth can be saved.

No! NOT "can be saved" but is, has been & will be saved for eternity.

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

If I preach along the lines of Wesley's hymn, "Come sinners to the Gospel feast, let every soul be Jesus' guest; you need not one be left behind, for God has bidden all mankind" I am not denying my calvinism, but preaching the Gospel. I preach the Word, & call sinners to repentance. The Holy Spirit causes that precious seed to grow to new birth. Elect sinners repent & believe.

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For God so loved...the elect?....no, He loved "the world"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

God's will...that ALL should be saved.
NOT God's will.... that any should go to Hell
2 Peter 3:9: "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is long suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance

How does God draw men to Himself? By the Holy Spirit...
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Here is an example....
Acts 1-24:25 And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.

Notice that Paul gave Felix the Gospel, Felix was drawn by the Holy Spirit, and Felix was convicted(he trembled) but Felix said..... "not now". It was his choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Article Categories

About Us

Since 2001, Online Baptist has been an Independent Baptist website, and we exclusively use the King James Version of the Bible. We pride ourselves on a community that uplifts the Lord.

Contact Us

You can contact us using the following link. Contact Us or for questions regarding this website please contact @pastormatt or email James Foley at jfoley@sisqtel.net

Android App

Online Baptist has a custom App for all android users. You can download it from the Google Play store or click the following icon.

×
×
  • Create New...