Members trc123 Posted January 28, 2010 Members Share Posted January 28, 2010 Jerry, While your piety is exemplary and mine is meager; I must still say I'm not afraid of giving up anything except for the means in which God has given to me to take care of my own family. Please do not include me in the "we" when responding to my quote and saying that "we fear we will have to give up to much, money and material possession....." I've never been afraid to sacrifice to help others, especially those less fortunate. My wife and I have taken into our home countless "down and out" people, former prisoners and others (entertaining angels unawares I believe). We have given materially and of our time to others in various needy ways to the point I may have been negligent in planning for our future (Social Security here we come). I will never be convinced that it is God's will or way to so completely deplete that which he has given to us in giving to others to the point I then do not take care of my own family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anon Posted January 28, 2010 Members Share Posted January 28, 2010 Your right, that responsibility should not be thrust on anyone, But we as children of God ought to freely take it upon our self to help them because of the compassion within our hearts. But we fear we will have to give up to much, money and material possession, of which we cannot carry with us to heaven. This actually doesn't have much to do with the topic...I haven't withheld money from anyone and we are actually quite sacrificial givers as a family...so I don't think my political belief (each man takes care of themselves as far as possible) has anything to do with how generous I am as a person, with my money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1Timothy115 Posted January 29, 2010 Members Share Posted January 29, 2010 You're all correct to some degree or another. The topic is of course the shortfall of Government run health care while the tragedy is two parents left to find whatever means they can to save their child from being terminated. Today's community for support and additional funds is here on the internet. We are that community and how the Holy Spirit would move each one of us to respond is between us and the Holy Spirit. Those of us who may have experienced similar tragedy will respond one way or another. 1 John 3:17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anon Posted January 29, 2010 Members Share Posted January 29, 2010 The thing that made me the most upset about the article is that they did let her labor too long and should have taken the baby a long time before...I think the hospital did mess up the childbirth.... In the "olden" days though the baby would have died several times by now...which is why I'm like...where do the rights begin and end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted January 29, 2010 Members Share Posted January 29, 2010 Maybe the question should be, "When do you stop helping?" Before trying to answer that question, please remember, doctors are wrong many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anon Posted January 30, 2010 Members Share Posted January 30, 2010 Whoa, whoa, whoa....new article: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,584341,00.html?test=latestnews They are calling BOTH situations "euthenasia"....how is THAT?! How is injecting a person with heroin the same as removing mechanical life support? That's a slam on anyone who's ever had to make the decision to "pull the plug"..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted January 30, 2010 Members Share Posted January 30, 2010 When you give them an overdoes with intentions of killing them. That is murder, right? That seems to be the case with that article."One year later, while out on bail, Inglis successfully administered the heroin overdose and killed her " But with that said, if someone is terminally ill, or badly injured, and in need of pain medication, if the does needed to control pain happens to kill them, that is not murder, just a side effect of keeping them out of pain. I've heard of families who had a loved one dying of cancer, and being told we cannot give them any more pain medication, larger dose, for it might make them die. I firmly believe when one is dying from a terminal disease and or bad injury, we need to try our best to keep the pain under control, if death is a side effect of keeping them comfortable them that risk has to be taken. I've always thought these 2 things. 1. I would hate to know I'm standing by the death bed of a loved one while they are laying in bed suffering from pain when the doctors has pain medications that can make the more comfortable. 2. It would be terrible to be laying on your death bed with family gathered around you and your suffering from sever pain but yet they will not give your enough to make you comfortable from fear it will kill you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anon Posted January 30, 2010 Members Share Posted January 30, 2010 I think it would be terrible for your body to be trying to die (if you are saved) and the machines won't let you just go in peace.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted January 30, 2010 Members Share Posted January 30, 2010 I think it would be terrible for your body to be trying to die (if you are saved) and the machines won't let you just go in peace.... I have to err on the side of life, for only God knows the other side of the story, to err on the side of death could very well be murder. Plus the fact, even with modern equipment, doctors don't know everything I've seen doctors make the wrong call. And I sure would not want the government making such decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anon Posted January 30, 2010 Members Share Posted January 30, 2010 I'm just saying health care is not a basic human right. Its a luxury we enjoy but not a right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted January 30, 2010 Members Share Posted January 30, 2010 I want to ask a tough question, not just of you, but every Christian that reads this. If we saw someone in need of health care, no matter the reason, perhaps they wasted away all of their money and or they had no money, but at the moment they have no the money for health care, would we turn our back on them and or help them? Seems most people who talk about health care not being a right, do not want money to come from them in the form of taxes to help someone get health care, no matter the reason they do not have health insurance. On this issue, those of the world see Christians as being hard hearted towards those in need of health care, and do not want none of their money to go towards helping them get health care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anon Posted January 31, 2010 Members Share Posted January 31, 2010 Here's the thing...of COURSE we should help anyone we can help. But the way things are now, as someone mentioned earlier, the government is taking away our money to help our families to pay for people who smoke, drink, have AIDS, and live on welfare. The health care system is messed up, no way around that, and socialized meds aren't going to help it. My point is health care is NOT A RIGHT. It is a PRIVILEGE. When you can show me in God's word that I have the RIGHT to health care then I will change my mind. That does not make me uncompassionate or unloving and it does not mean I do not sacrifice my money for others...(as a matter of fact this week our church will be buying groceries for one of our church families in need) but it does mean that my belief is that health care is not a fundamental human right and I'm tired of people treating it as such. NOBody appreciates health care because they think they are entititled to it. We ought to appreciate what health care we have as a gift from God. That way, if the doctors ever say "We are sorry, there is nothing else we can do" we won't be so angry and bitter, because we know that God has done for us what He wills, and its time to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members trc123 Posted January 31, 2010 Members Share Posted January 31, 2010 To answer Jerry's, "If we saw someone in need of health care, no matter the reason, perhaps they wasted away all of their money and or they had no money, but at the moment they have no the money for health care, would we turn our back on them and or help them?" The honest answer of each and everyone of us is that 99% of the time (unless they are immediate family) no, we would not help them with their health care costs. Each and every day we all choose to not pay other people's health related costs, even though we do have the means to help. Every person we know has health care related Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Psalms18_28 Posted January 31, 2010 Members Share Posted January 31, 2010 I'm not concern about helping people with healthcare. I'm concern about help would be taken away because the gov't and the voters want it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Psalms18_28 Posted January 31, 2010 Members Share Posted January 31, 2010 Here's the thing...of COURSE we should help anyone we can help. But the way things are now, as someone mentioned earlier, the government is taking away our money to help our families to pay for people who smoke, drink, have AIDS, and live on welfare. The health care system is messed up, no way around that, and socialized meds aren't going to help it. My point is health care is NOT A RIGHT. It is a PRIVILEGE. When you can show me in God's word that I have the RIGHT to health care then I will change my mind. That does not make me uncompassionate or unloving and it does not mean I do not sacrifice my money for others...(as a matter of fact this week our church will be buying groceries for one of our church families in need) but it does mean that my belief is that health care is not a fundamental human right and I'm tired of people treating it as such. NOBody appreciates health care because they think they are entititled to it. We ought to appreciate what health care we have as a gift from God. That way, if the doctors ever say "We are sorry, there is nothing else we can do" we won't be so angry and bitter, because we know that God has done for us what He wills, and its time to go. People with AIDs and welfare do need help. Not all AIDs is spread by sex. some kids were born from parents with AIDs, and other contacted it from blood contact. And they are too weak to get jOBs. It is not right to forbid them from healthcare. They need help so they won't feel miserable. And some women are on welfare because the father left them or they made mistake or some women leave becasue the father is an abuser (like my grandma....) Now I do think those who have a bad habits should pay everytime they go in to see a doctor after he warn them to stop because it is affecting their health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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