Jump to content
  • Welcome Guest

    For an ad free experience on Online Baptist, Please login or register for free

Freemasonry


Recommended Posts

  • Members


This doesn't even need a reply. Go back, humble your message with what is your opinion, that you "think may be true", and facts, while not attacking anyone who is dead or in general terms ie "those people" "mason run churches" etc. It hardly takes a "mason" to be an American who is a patriot.

I am hardly a mason, but I know you are wrong. At least if you follow Benjamin Franklin's advice, and be humble how you present your opinion, others will more likely listen to you and feel more like giving you what they actually know is true. Remember the sin of Ham.


Benjamin Franklin was a high level Mason. Perhaps you should do some research prior to attacking others on this matter. I've not offered opinion, only pointed out that several Founders and many involved in the fomenting and prosecution of the Revolution were Masons.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 41
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Members
This doesn't even need a reply. Go back, humble your message with what is your opinion, that you "think may be true", and facts, while not attacking anyone who is dead or in general terms ie "those people" "mason run churches" etc. It hardly takes a "mason" to be an American who is a patriot.

I am hardly a mason, but I know you are wrong. At least if you follow Benjamin Franklin's advice, and be humble how you present your opinion, others will more likely listen to you and feel more like giving you what they actually know is true. Remember the sin of Ham.

Dude, chill out. Nothing in John81's comments can be remotely described as attacking. He just presented a couple of issues with freemasonry and our founders. You may not agree with his comments (I don't know why; John is just stating facts), but that doesn't warrant jumping down his throat.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

For an excellent source showing how UNscriptural Freemasonry is, OBtain "The Meaning of Masonry" by W.L. Wilmshurst. Wilmshurst was despairing over how many in Masonry were ignorant of the true origin and meaning of Masonic symbolism and wrote this to educate his Fellows. In the foreword, (July 1980) Allan Boudreau PhD (Curator and Librarian Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons of the State of New York) listed Wilmshurst in the same class of knowledgable Masons as "Albert Pike, ROBert Freke Gould, Fort Newton, Albert Gallatin Mackey, and W. L. Wilmshurst.".

Edited by OLD fashioned
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrators

Several of our founders were indeed Masons. However, God did use them to found this nation - and it was founded on Biblical principles (not as a Christian nation, but one on the Biblical principle of liberty).

John Adams - (Spoke favorably of Freemasonry; never joined)
Samuel Adams - (Close and principal associate of Hancock, Revere & other Masons)
Ethan Allen - Mason
Edmund Burke - Mason
John Claypoole - Mason
William Daws - Mason
Benjamin Franklin - Mason
Nathan Hale - No evidence of Masonic connections
John Hancock - Mason
Benjamin Harrison - No evidence of Masonic connections
Patrick Henry - No evidence of Masonic connections
Thomas Jefferson - (Deist with some evidence of Masonic connections)
John Paul Jones - Mason
Francis Scott Key - No evidence of Masonic connections
ROBert Livingston - Mason
James Madison - (Some evidence of Masonic membership)
Thomas Paine - Humanist
Paul Revere - Mason
Colonel Benjamin Tupper - Mason
George Washington - Mason


An interesting thing to note is that there was Operative Masonry (people who actually did mason work) and Speculative Masonry. Operative became Speculative when more and more men who were not actual builders joined. The first Grand Lodge was in 1717 - 61 years before our fight for liberty and freedom. It is of interest to note that it wasn't until 1725 that a THIRD degree was added - the Master Mason - to the London Lodge, and was not official until 1738...less than 40 years before our War for Independence. The first lodge in America was chartered in 1733 - while there were still only two official degrees of Speculative Masonry.

Without knowing the minds of our founders, we can't know why, exactly, they were Masons. But it was definitely a gentrified thing to do (become a Mason) and still is in many churches. Was early Masonry here in America tied in to the Illuminati (which is the Luciferian part of it)? I sincerely doubt it. The principles of independence, service and liberty which the Masons of early America embraced are not a typical part of the Illuminati...

Being a Mason doesn't disqualify someone from loving their country and wanting to see it prosper. My grandfather was a Mason (although not high degree - he practiced when my mom and uncle were younger, but not as he got older), and you would have to search far and wide to find a more patriotic man. Christian? I don't know: whenever we would broach the subject, he would let us know that he was alright. He was raised the old time Presbyterian, so we hope so... Let me hasten to add that I don't think Christians should join with the Masons!

:ot:
I don't want to derail this thread, but, John, the preachers who preached hotly against the tyranny of England were, by and large, not Masons. They were Biblicists who loved and knew the Word of God and the God of the Word.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

For an excellent source showing how UNscriptural Freemasonry is, OBtain "The Meaning of Masonry" by W.L. Wilmshurst. Wilmshurst was despairing over how many in Masonry were ignorant of the true origin and meaning of Masonic symbolism and wrote this to educate his Fellows. In the foreword, (July 1980) Allan Boudreau PhD (Curator and Librarian Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons of the State of New York) listed Wilmshurst in the same class of knowledgable Masons as "Albert Pike, ROBert Freke Gould, Fort Newton, Albert Gallatin Mackey, and W. L. Wilmshurst.".




Several of our founders were indeed Masons. However, God did use them to found this nation - and it was founded on Biblical principles (not as a Christian nation, but one on the Biblical principle of liberty).

John Adams - (Spoke favorably of Freemasonry; never joined)
Samuel Adams - (Close and principal associate of Hancock, Revere & other Masons)
Ethan Allen - Mason
Edmund Burke - Mason
John Claypoole - Mason
William Daws - Mason
Benjamin Franklin - Mason
Nathan Hale - No evidence of Masonic connections
John Hancock - Mason
Benjamin Harrison - No evidence of Masonic connections
Patrick Henry - No evidence of Masonic connections
Thomas Jefferson - (Deist with some evidence of Masonic connections)
John Paul Jones - Mason
Francis Scott Key - No evidence of Masonic connections
ROBert Livingston - Mason
James Madison - (Some evidence of Masonic membership)
Thomas Paine - Humanist
Paul Revere - Mason
Colonel Benjamin Tupper - Mason
George Washington - Mason


An interesting thing to note is that there was Operative Masonry (people who actually did mason work) and Speculative Masonry. Operative became Speculative when more and more men who were not actual builders joined. The first Grand Lodge was in 1717 - 61 years before our fight for liberty and freedom. It is of interest to note that it wasn't until 1725 that a THIRD degree was added - the Master Mason - to the London Lodge, and was not official until 1738...less than 40 years before our War for Independence. The first lodge in America was chartered in 1733 - while there were still only two official degrees of Speculative Masonry.

Without knowing the minds of our founders, we can't know why, exactly, they were Masons. But it was definitely a gentrified thing to do (become a Mason) and still is in many churches. Was early Masonry here in America tied in to the Illuminati (which is the Luciferian part of it)? I sincerely doubt it. The principles of independence, service and liberty which the Masons of early America embraced are not a typical part of the Illuminati...

Being a Mason doesn't disqualify someone from loving their country and wanting to see it prosper. My grandfather was a Mason (although not high degree - he practiced when my mom and uncle were younger, but not as he got older), and you would have to search far and wide to find a more patriotic man. Christian? I don't know: whenever we would broach the subject, he would let us know that he was alright. He was raised the old time Presbyterian, so we hope so... Let me hasten to add that I don't think Christians should join with the Masons!

:ot:
I don't want to derail this thread, but, John, the preachers who preached hotly against the tyranny of England were, by and large, not Masons. They were Biblicists who loved and knew the Word of God and the God of the Word.



Both points listed are correct.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I have to be honest, I never realized the 'wrong' with Freemasons. My grandfather was a Mason. A great Christian man and preacher, too. Masons were never explained to me as a kid. It was always so secret and just never talked about other than he is one. The way I was always told about it is that you have to be invited and usually runs through families. Like, My DH couldn't just go to the lodge and decide to be a Mason because his father or grandfather was not a Mason. I have no idea though really. I wasn't interested anyway.

My grandfather quit several years ago. I wonder why. Did he 'retire' from it? Who knows. I trust his salvation but it really is surprising to see that he would be involved in something like this. They did the Masonic Rights at his funeral last year. Love my grandfather but the ceremony was a ridiculous thing to add to his service. I see where 'tradition' will follow people through the ages and make you believe it is right because it is an old way or whatever they may defend it with. Honestly as an adult I began to think, when I would think about Masons, how weird it was. What good is there in a secret society with rituals that nOBody else can know? Kind of reminds me of Mormonism where only select people are allowed in the Temple (or tabernacle whatever it's called) and nOBody knows what their rituals are like. None of that is any religion or society I want to be a part of. My religion is open for anyone who accepts Jesus as their Savior. That simple :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...
  • Members

Well, I contend that freemasonry is a religion. I have thought about your question many times, and I have not come up with a set conclusion. While I believe it is possible to live in ignorance, I have a hard time believing Masons who have heard the truth about freemasonry and do not flee from it are truely children of God. Masons teach their own gospel, and it definately is not the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Masonic manual of MO reads, "


A careful study of freemasonry demonstrates that it is a religion (a false religion) though they deny that they are a religion.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrators

I'm currently reading this book:

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/858763.The_Question_of_Freemasonry_and_the_Founding_Fathers

Interestingly, Barton quotes from masonic history to show that many of the founders who folks have claimed to have been masons were not. And he shows the difference between European masonry and American masonry at its inception (I say at its inception, because when Albert Pike came along, freemasonry in America changed...)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

Interesting, Coc333. Please show supporting evidence and premises to your conclusion, if you don't mind.



Not taking the time to do your homework, if you OBtain and read the book I referenced earlier, "The Meaning of Masonry" by W.L. Wilmshurst (written by a leading mason to his fellow-masons), you will have more answers than you currently have questions to.

Find a used one from abebooks.com or buy a new one through amazon ------------------ ISBN#0-517-33194-2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Interesting, Coc333. Please show supporting evidence and premises to your conclusion, if you don't mind.


Of course, I will be glad to provide support for this or any other statement I make. "The truth is, that Masonry is undoubtedly a religious institution --its religion being of that universal kind in which all men agree, and which, handed down through a lon succession of ages, from that ancient priesthood who first taught it, embraces the great tenets of the existence of God and the immortality of the soul......" Jurisprudence of Freemasonry by Makey (Sorry, don't have first name)

Joseph Fort NEwton, editor of the Mastoer Mason has much to say about it. "In English-speaking lands, as we know well enough, our Masonry is essentially and nOBly relitious, both in its faith adn its practice, and we are quite well agreed as to what we mean by the Religion of Masonry (The Religion of Masonry pg 3)" "It is the business of Masonry to cut, carve, polish, and place in order of wall, pillar, and arch the stones of a Temple of brotherhood, founded upon spiritual faith and moral truth, built in accordance with the Laws of God, by His aid, and in his holy name (Ibid pg 9)."

This material was taken from a class on Denominational Doctrine I took in preaching school. It was put together my my instructer and brother in Christ, Gerald Ball
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Can anybody (preferably a pastor , or mature believer)answer a quetion that just popped in my mind ?

Can a TRULY born again believer be mixed up in and a member of the Freemasons ?I guess I mean to add ``without being convicted``?


I have a masonic manual, and by reading from page one, I cannot for the life of me see how a saved man cannot see it as harmless. If we are to believe that one that is a saved person cannot be in a pagan religion such as wicca or mormonism,( these two are very close in ceremonial rituals to freemasonry), how then can we turn around and say they could be, if they are freemasons. Also this is not just a carnal sin, this is a belief system. There are so many reports of lost people who were in that organization, who become born again and immediately get out because they see what it truly is. Yet we are to believe that deacon Joe schmo and pastor Willy Wonka are in the freemasons and have no idea of its dangers. Freemasonry is so pagan, it is shameful to even think that it is engrained in christianity.



1 John 4:1-7 tells us to try the spirits.

1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.


These examples are directly from the manual

! That ancient and spotless ensign of Masonry, the LAMB-SKIN or WHITE APRON, presented in behalf of the Lodge and the fraternity in general.

! "It is an emblem of innocence, and the badge of a mason; more ancient than the golden fleece, or Roman eagle; more honorable than the star and garter, or any other order that can be conferred upon the candidate at the time of his initiation, or at any further period. by king, prince, potentate, or any other person, except he be a Mason." **** IT is hoped he will wear it with pleasure to himself and honor to the fraternity.

! Every candidate, at his initiation, is presented with a lamb-skin, or white apron.'

! "The LAMB has, in all ages, been deemed an emblem of innoncence; the lamb-skin is therefore to remind him of that purity of life and rectitude of conduct, which is so essentially necessary to his gaining admission in the Celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the universe presides."

! The immovable jewels are the ROUGH ASHLER, the PERFECT ASHLER and the TRESTLE BOARD.

! The rough ashler is a stone in its rude and natural state, as taken from the quarry: the perfect ashler, on prepared by the workmen, to be adjusted by the working tools of the fellowcraft; and the threstle board is for the master workman to draw his designs upon.
! who are in adversity; to walk uprightly, and with humility; for such is this existence, that there is no station in which pride can be stably founded- all men in birth and in the grave are on a level. Whilst we tread on this mosaic work, let our ideas return to the original which it copies; and let every mason act as the dictates of reason prompt him to live in brotherly love."

! By the rough ashler we are reminded of our rude and imperfect state by nature; by the perfect ashler, of the state of perfection at which we hope to arrive by a virtuous education, our own edeavors, and the blessings of DEITY. And as the opreative workman erects his temporal building in accordance with the designs laid down upon the trestle board, by the master workman, so should we, both operative and speculative, endeavor to erect our spiritual building in accoardance with the designs laid down by the Supreme Architect of the universe, in the great book of nature and revelation, which is our spiritual, moral and masonic trestle-board.

Just that little bit shows how pagan it is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...