1 Cor. 2:13,14

[JerryNumbers]

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

From the above verses we usually agree that it means that the unsaved person cannot understand the spiritual side of God's Word.

I recall reading in a book and old Baptist pastor wrote that its useless to discuss the Bible with a lost person. That if you trying to witnesses to someone hoping they will accept Jesus as Savior, if they get off on trying to discuss Bible doctrine, if you can get the conversation turned back to trying to get them saved to stop the discussion. For they will never understand the spiritual side of the Bible, until 1st they're saved.

I wonder how many of you feel about this.

[Seth Doty]

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

From the above verses we usually agree that it means that the unsaved person cannot understand the spiritual side of God's Word.

I recall reading in a book and old Baptist pastor wrote that its useless to discuss the Bible with a lost person. That if you trying to witnesses to someone hoping they will accept Jesus as Savior, if they get off on trying to discuss Bible doctrine, if you can get the conversation turned back to trying to get them saved to stop the discussion. For they will never understand the spiritual side of the Bible, until 1st they're saved.

I wonder how many of you feel about this.

I would agree with that. In John 4 the woman at the well tried to get into a spiritual discussion with Jesus over the proper place to worship God. Rather then quoting scripture to her that would have shown that Jerusalem was indeed where they should have gone up to worship he took the discussion back toward salvation.


The same thing applies to carnal backsliding Christians as well. If we as believers are seeking the Lord out of a pure heart and are walking in his will we have the mind of Christ. Christ then gives us unity and understanding and doctrinal discussions can be very profitable. Throw in some luke warm attitudes, unconfessed and unforsaken sin in hearts, pride, etc. and doctrinal discussions will not be very profitable. The Spirit will war against the flesh and Christ cannot give light to hearts that are not committed to him.

Sometimes I feel like quoting this verse to some professing Christians with lots of doctrinal questions that are OBviously coming out of a carnal and unrepentant heart that is not truly seeking first the kingdom of God and his righteousness:

"Proverbs 17:16 Wherefore is there a price in the hand of a fool to get wisdom, seeing he hath no heart to it?"

Of course that wouldn't help the situation any so I usually refrain.

1 Thessalonians 5:14 is a good verse for me to remember:

Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.

I don't personally have any difficulty warning the unruly, that comes easily(lol), but I have to continually remember to work on the rest of that verse, particularly the very last part.

[JerryNumbers]

Seth, Thanks for the reply, let me ask this.

We agree on the issue is just asked about, and I feel pretty sure we agree on this issue to, those church who teach one is saved by works & or baptism, are unsaved, for there's only one way to be saved, by grace through faith.

Why do so many of our Baptist brothers and sisters in Christ debate those who believe your saved by works & or baptism, plus even some will treat them as fellow brothers and sisters in Christ? Which the 1st would be futile, and would not the latter give them a false sense of security?

[Seth Doty]

Seth, Thanks for the reply, let me ask this.

We agree on the issue is just asked about, and I feel pretty sure we agree on this issue to, those church who teach one is saved by works & or baptism, are unsaved, for there's only one way to be saved, by grace through faith.

Why do so many of our Baptist brothers and sisters in Christ debate those who believe your saved by works & or baptism, plus even some will treat them as fellow brothers and sisters in Christ? Which the 1st would be futile, and would not the latter give them a false sense of security?

I can't answer why some baptists will treat those those that teach salvation by works or by by baptism as if they are brothers in Christ. To do that is wrong. As far as debates it is always a fine line to walk. On the one hand you have verses like this:

"1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear."

"2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine."

Proverbs 24:24-25 He that saith unto the wicked, Thou art righteous; him shall the people curse, nations shall abhor him: But to them that rebuke him shall be delight, and a good blessing shall come upon them.

"Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit."

But on the other hand there are verses like this:

"Proverbs 29:9 If a wise man contendeth with a foolish man, whether he rage or laugh, there is no rest."

"Proverbs 9:7 He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame: and he that rebuketh a wicked man getteth himself a blot."

"Proverbs 15:12 A scorner loveth not one that reproveth him: neither will he go unto the wise."

"Proverbs 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him."


So I believe a balance is called for. On a one on one basis if a person has no heart to hear the truth I won't waste much time arguing with him. Jesus said he wasn't come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance. If someone has an unregenerate or carnal heart and yet is self deceived into believing they are right it isn't my jOB to cram the truth down their throat if they don't want to hear it. Matthew 15:14 comes to mind. On the other hand if someone is speaking that which is evil and contrary to the bible within the church or in a place like this where believers congregate I am much more likely to present some argument even if I can perceive a spirit of wickedness that is not interested in the truth. Not for the sake of the individual presenting the evil doctrine but for the sake of new, immature, or weak Christians that might more easily fall into error if the evil was left completely unchallenged and unrebuked. I do try to take care these days not to engage in extensive discussions/debates with those who I perceive are not open to the truth but I do believe in public situations they shouldn't be completely ignored due to the damage they can cause.

[His by Grace]

Seth-Doty, Amen!!! To your above post!! His by Grace

[JerryNumbers]

I'm working on that balance. Trying to keep my though of contending for the faith in a proper perceptive and stay within its bounds. Its so easy to get out of those bounds.

On treating the works based churches as brothers and sisters, I suppose in most every city around there is a group of churches that come together in Ministry Alliance of sorts. Each time they do this around here they always have pictures placed in our local paper of the pastors of these churches standing together and a long write up about them. Among them there be Baptist along with several churches who teaches works based salvation. They take time about meeting in each others churches, with each churches pastor preaching the message. Among the pastors there be 2 women pastors. Most people in our community hold all of these in very high esteem. And those involved are always trying to get all other churches throughout the area to join in with them, and with each new year if seems at least one more church will make the compromise joining with them. They seem to be blinded to the fact they have joined together with people who do not even know the way to Jesus' Cross, that by joining with them shows that they approve of their false teachings.

One old Baptist pastor said it this way. "Preachers are compromisers; they recognize the ministers of other denominations as being true ministers of God. They do this my mixing with them in ministers alliances; minister's conferences; unions meetings; pulpit affiliations; and in many other ways."

So far our members agree, we are not to have no part with their compromising.

Thanks for you comments on this, maybe they will help all of us.