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Billy Graham's Sad Disobedience to the Word of God


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If that is your attitude I will bow out in OBedience to Matthew 7:6


I could easily say the same, but it isn't really applicable. Just another example of your total and fundamental misunderstanding of scripture. It's also an easy, yet false, out for you. It would be much easier for both of us if you would just put your fingers in your ears and shake your head while blabbing some gibberish.

Just find us some facts to back up your assertion. If its true and I am wrong, there will be evidence.
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One instants of a believers baptism. That is very easy challenge.

Ac 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Ac 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Ac 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

For you see, Peter made sure this man was saved before he consented to baptizing him. The Bible way is always, 1st a person is saved, them and only then are they baptized, so only believers are baptized within the pages of the Bible. Because if a person is not saved they have been baptized in vain.

Of course its just a public profession of that person turning from the world and following Christ, a picture of the death, burial, resurrection of Christ, that is the 1st step of OBedience after a person has been saved. Baptizing has no part in saving a person, there is only one way to be saved.

Eph

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Wow, PTwild, you are seriously out to lunch here. Origen was a serious heretic and false teacher. He was as lost as lost can be. Infant baptism is not in the Word of God and is from the put of Hell. The Bible does not teach or even imply it. The passage you quoted says we are to be childlike to be saved - not that children need to be baptized. It does not even mention baptism in that passage!

Just because the same passages refer to both baptism and circumcision does not make the two equal in meaning, purpose, or in regards to the recipients of either.


And what do you know about Origen Jerry? What wikipedia says? Or is it one of Jerry8's little websites? And I'll say it again because it OBviously didn't stick: The part I quoted from Origen wasn't to show his support of infant baptism. It in no way even insinuates that we should follow infant baptism because Origen did. It was quoted for its historical value. It is evidence that it was a standard practice of the Church well before the time of Origen.

I also said that I don't agree with all of Origen's beliefs. He was definitely mistaken on some things. I think you are definitely mistaken on a few things as well. However, I don't know Origen personally any more than I know you personally, so I wouldn't dare say he was "lost." I do know that he died for his faith in a resurrected Christ.

And of course I know that the quotations from Luke mean that we are to approach Christ like a child. However, those same verses also evidence Christ's desire that infants share in his blessings the same as adults (that is why the children were being brought to him, to receive his blessing). So too is baptism, it is our initiation in the Christian faith- a blessing. Does it assure us of salvation? No. It is our starting point (just as circumcision was the starting point for the Jew), to be followed by our faith.

When the Bible was written, there were no Christian families. Everyone was a convert to a "new religion." Of course the apostles did not seek out infants to convert - they sought out adults. However,you cannot deny that the Bible mentions, on more than one occasion, that the entire households of new believers were baptized. Further, you have to look at the practices of the early church. All of the churches mentioned in the Bible still practice infant baptism today. Look it up for yourself. The Church in Jerusalem, Corinth, Ephesus . . . all of them. There isn't a shroud of evidence of "believer's baptism" in any of the early Churches.

I'll give you the same opportunity as Revelation: just show us where "believer's baptism" existed before pre-Reformation England. If it is true, there will be evidence of it.
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One instants of a believers baptism. That is very easy challenge.

Ac 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Ac 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Ac 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

For you see, Peter made sure this man was saved before he consented to baptizing him. The Bible way is always, 1st a person is saved, them and only then are they baptized, so only believers are baptized within the pages of the Bible. Because if a person is not saved they have been baptized in vain.

Of course its just a public profession of that person turning from the world and following Christ, a picture of the death, burial, resurrection of Christ, that is the 1st step of OBedience after a person has been saved. Baptizing has no part in saving a person, there is only one way to be saved.

Eph
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