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non-ifb Song of solomon discussion


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It tells me much when one says first that "sex is dirty, or should I say sin" and then finally proceeds to say "unless its between one husband and his one wife."

Perhaps others would have said, " Sex is beautiful and wonderful between a husband and wife, in fact a picture of the wonderful intimacy one has with their beloved; it is only dirty outside the confines that God has established, outside the marriage bed."


Wow, I love your put down, just because someone else expresses something different than you would. As you said, "That tells me a lot."
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For the sake of discussing this position as set forth in this thread, let's take chapter five for example - a chapter I believe is describing the believer backsliding and not letting Christ in to fellowship, then she goes out to find Him, but can't at first - until she witnesses to others, gets her heart stirred up by focussing on the Lord again, which causes the daughters of Jerusalem to desire to seek Him with her - then in the next chapter she finds Him where she knew He was before but had forgotten. I can give Biblical passages to back up this viewpoint and have done so in this study: Is Your Armour On? The physical descriptions do not cause a conflict with this view, as tracing the descriptions throughout Scripture shows many places where they are presented without sex being the context - both Hudson Taylor and Matthew Henry do a good jOB of analyzing these portions.

Without getting graphic or inappropriate in what is posted, please show where sex is being discussed/presented (however you want to call it) and what related passages lead you to that conclusion? The Scriptures are not of any private interpretation so there has to be other passages we can go to to have either view reinforced Biblically.

I know we don't see eye to eye here, and I think your position is wrong (hence the debate) - but I don't think that makes someone evil or a compromiser because of it - but I do want to see how you believe this position is reinforced by the rest of the Bible.


Scripture is not a private interpretation is an interesting dynamic to hermeneutics, but nothing helps determine meaning more then immediate context. While we classify SoS as wisdom literature, it is on its own as far as genre. There is nothing requiring us to find some bond to other scripture references. OBviously the truths taught in the scripture must reconcile with the rest of scripture.

All that said to say, the song is discussing the marital love and intimacy. In chapter 5, she... uh... has a headache. I'm not sure why I have to find some other passage to support that since the immediate context is what determines meaning. It is what it is. I can certainly see your application of this passage, though I think it is an allegorical stretch.

I do not think we need to find any other deep or hidden meaning behind it. It is what it is. This book is powerful in its message about love,marriage and sex without needing to find some other Christ/church connection.
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Yes they did get married and yes there is great 'marital' passion expressed in the SoS. The Wedding night is in chapter 4 and the first verse of chapter 5. It is spoken in poetic form so that is not vulgar, so a young child reading it would not be offended, nor would anyone else. But the ultimate message of the story is the Love of Christ for the Church and her love for him. The whole story is pure and holy.

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Just popping in to say, "Good posting, Dwayner." :thumb: I will add that it has always been amusing to me that some of the people who argue most strenuously for a "literal" interpretation of the Bible somehow make an exception for Song of Solomon, interpreting it allegorically, even though there is no justification in the text for this interpretation. (I'm not referring to anyone in here, just people I've known in real life.)

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The point is Annie, some of the Bible is literal, some of it is not. that is why it is so important to do this.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

So your post sounds good, but infact it is completely misleading

Why, for if you take the whole Bible literal, in the end you will be wrong on many issues, for some it is literal, and some are not, that is why dividing the Word of the truth is so important.

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I'm curious, which parts of chapter 4 are sexual?

This part?

Song of Solomon 4:1-5 Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead. Thy teeth are like a flock of sheep that are even shorn, which came up from the washing; whereof every one bear twins, and none is barren among them. Thy lips are like a thread of scarlet, and thy speech is comely: thy temples are like a piece of a pomegranate within thy locks. Thy neck is like the tower of David builded for an armoury, whereon there hang a thousand bucklers, all shields of mighty men. Thy two breasts are like two young roes that are twins, which feed among the lilies.

Because it describes her physically, it must be describing sex? That doesn't necessarily follow.

This part?

Song of Solomon 4:9-11 Thou hast ravished my heart, my sister, my spouse; thou hast ravished my heart with one of thine eyes, with one chain of thy neck. How fair is thy love, my sister, my spouse! how much better is thy love than wine! and the smell of thine ointments than all spices! Thy lips, O my spouse, drop as the honeycomb: honey and milk are under thy tongue; and the smell of thy garments is like the smell of Lebanon.

No doubt it is talking about their love - but that doesn't necessarily mean they are discussing sex. All the commentaries I have read state that verse 11 is referring to her speach.

This part?

Song of Solomon 4:12-16 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed. Thy plants are an orchard of pomegranates, with pleasant fruits; camphire, with spikenard, Spikenard and saffron; calamus and cinnamon, with all trees of frankincense; myrrh and aloes, with all the chief spices: A fountain of gardens, a well of living waters, and streams from Lebanon. Awake, O north wind; and come, thou south; blow upon my garden, that the spices thereof may flow out. Let my beloved come into his garden, and eat his pleasant fruits.

That does not fit Scripturally - that would be bringing ideas from outside the Bible and trying to fit them in there. The theme of watered gardens runs through the OT, and nowhere else does it refer to sex (that I can recall). A Well Of Living Waters

I am not trying to be dense - but where is the sex? Just saying it is in there, is not the same thing as proving it Biblically. I would think it would be pretty important to interpret the Bible correctly. On any other issue and passage, you would be crying foul if I brought my own ideas in that were foreign to the text. Where is the sex, and what other passages can you go to reinforce that interpretation? If your interpretation is Biblical, it will withstand the scrutiny.

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They are being affectionate and romantic first before anything else.That's what married people do. It's kinda hard to get straight to sex without the passion. And most people don't physically describe the sex part (unless it is hard-core porn) . Instead they describe the passion like describing a person physically in a poetically way.

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Okay, but statements made by others indicate the Song of Solomon was about sex. Is it or isn't it? I am not denying that it is describing the love between the couple, the relationship, the fellowship - but no one has yet proved that it is about sex. Plus, no one has yet proved the couple is married within or prior to the song. It is an assumption being brought into it. The only related reference is to their espousal (engagement).

If they are only engaged, with the bride to be awaiting the return of the groom to take her as his wife, it is a perfect parallel in every particular to our walk with the Lord, with every parallel backed up completely by related Biblical passages. Just like the book of Revelation, the parables, and various types, every symbol has its explanation elsewhere within the Word of God (which is a safeguard to interpretation) - however, when it is made to refer to sex, somehow now there are no related passages to explain this book.

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Here is a quick outline. Please show me where you disagree, and where sex fits into the picture. I can back up any part with Scripture, but for now am just giving a tentative overview:

Chapter 1: Meeting and being drawn by Solomon/Christ; neglecting her own vineyard; seeking the shepherd; mutual admiration of each other; he is close to her heart; description of their house.

2: The Rose of Sharon and his shade; she is like him; drawing her away from this world unto himself; warning about removing the foxes; fellowshipping/feeding among believers (lilies); calling him to come over the difficulties that separate them.

3: A time of dark trials; she sought him and found him where the Word was preached; the King in his glory and reference to their engagement.

4: Description of the Bride to be (perfect in Christ); their love proclaimed; her soul as a garden with living waters.

5: She is backslidden and does not answer his call; she wakes up and seeks him; the watchmen injure her this time (through the convicting power of the Word of God); she witnesses/tells others of him.

6: She finds him where he said he would be (she has her eyes back on him now); descriptions of the bride.

7: More descriptions - each one is different, emphasizing different things about each of them; working for/serving him; bringing forth fruit.

8: Holding her up; walking out of the wilderness (the barren trial) on his arm; the permanency of true love; his servants; awaiting his return to take her to be his bride (compare with Revelation 22:20).

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Some who interpret Songs of Solomon sexually, may have read to many of those fiction romance novels. I'm still how many Christians read fiction romance novels, watch soap operas, and feel such stuff is good entertainment. How is it we can find books, TV shows, or movies depicting sin entertaining is beyond me. No wonder many Christina families lives are lived out in the manner of a soap opera.

When a person lets ungodly stuff such as that invade their mind, it can and will change their perceptive when they come to the Bible. If they keep pilling their minds full of it, soon they will not know what a sin is, for they will become accepting of everything.

4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.

5 He shall receive the blessing from the LORD, and righteousness from the God of his salvation.

Psalms 24:4-5 (KJV)

Oh how many prevent the true blessing of God because they refuse to keep their minds pure, for they keep packing it full of trash from this world calling it good.

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