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Jason A
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Shame is associated with sin all through the Bible, from Genesis 3 on to Revelation.

Also, Samson/male Nazarites did not let all their hair grow long, but only seven locks of it.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Look up the word, trace it through the Bible. Is there a verse that says Christ bore our shame? (I can't remember one right now.) Even if there is, He bore our sin - therefore, there would be shame attached - not His, but the shame of the sin He bore.

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Let's see how far we can twist Scripture...
Just because you want shame to mean sin doesn't mean it's gonna fly, not with me anyway. The fact of the matter is, no matter how much you screw around with word meanings, Samson had long hair, whether it was in "locks" or not. I still don't see an answer to my question. Did God change, did sin change, or did Jerry change God?

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Jos 22:22 The LORD God of gods, the LORD God of gods, he knoweth, and Israel he shall know; if it be in rebellion, or if in transgression against the LORD, (save us not this day,)

1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Rebellion ='s sin.
stubbornness ='s sin

The Bible is clear, God wants men to have short hair.

1Co 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

So that man who ignores God's Word and wears his hair long is rebellion against God.

So why would you want to do something and or defend something that the Bible, God's Word, says is a shame?

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I suppose, at the risk of sounding arrogant (which I will try not to, because I am young and new to the faith) it balances on whether we accept Paul's words as the Word of God, or as his own words. The danger to me is that if we say short hair is a mere cultural preference of the time, we could so easily slip into a pick and choose theology. Anything else that doesn't suit us could be passed off as cultural?

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I have one question I would like answered? How is our answers in this thread going to both uplift the Lord and encourage a new believer in Christ? I'm convinced that sometimes we would rather find something to argue over, rather than encourage a new believer in his own thread. :puzzled3:

JasonA, sorry about this thread turning into this. I'm glad that you felt the Lord leading you to do something that was right and you followed the Lords leading. Their is great joy in OBeying the Lord.

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Perhaps we could start a separate discussion on Paul's views - whether they are his own, or part of God's word.

I think a little bit of length is good for some people. Not everyone looks good with very short cuts. I know I wouldn't because of my glasses. It doesn't have to be down to your shoulders but there's nothing wrong with a little bit hanging down over your ears or having bangs just above your eyes, etc. A lot of it depends on the person's facial features.


My forehead and ears are very visible now! And the unhappy rebel is gone for good.
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Nice post Madeline. Very well written, whether we totally agree or not.

Though it may look like I'm playing the devil's advocate here, I'm trying to just provoke some thoughtful discussion on something we've(including myself) always just accepted as being straight-forward. NOBody seems interested, though. :frog:

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This isn't a question of whether or not Paul's writings were inspired or not. The question is, why does shame have to mean sin? If I cut off my nose, that would certainly be a shame, but not a sin.

Just for the record, mutilating your God-given body would be a sin...
God bless,
Crushmaster.
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The outward sign of a Nazarite was in three parts. First, they were to have nothing of the vine - fruit, wine, vinegar, husks, etc. Then, they were to allow the locks of the hair of their head grow (Numbers 6 desn't specify a number - it just says locks...Samson had 7). And, finally, they were to touch no dead body - if someone died near them, even, they were unclean.

Interesting thing about this is that both men and women could take the vow. It was a vow of separation to the Lord, and everyone knew by the outward signs just what the vowers were doing. Interesting thing to note, though, is that there is no mention of shame in the passage giving the instructions for the Nazarite vow.

Upon completion of the vow, the head was to be shaved at the door of the tabernacle...before even entering it! - both male and female - and the hair burned.

There were a few who were Nazarites for life - Samson was one, many believe John the Baptist was also, since he was to avoid the fruit of the vine.

All of that said to say that God set standards of outward appearance for the Nazarites - to separate them from those who did not take the vow. God does have standards for us, even if we don't like to admit it. And one of those deals with hair.

Men are to have short hair. Women are to have long hair. The raging debate is "What is short?" and "What is long?" Well, personally, I think if a person has to defend their cut, they know there's a prOBlem....

Kevin, as to shame = sin...If my son were to do something that brought shame on his father, it would be a bad thing. It would create a wall between him and his father. Their relationship would suffer. In the same manner, if we as Christians do something that brings shame on the name of our Heavenly Father, it's a bad thing. It creates a wall between us our Father. Our relationship would suffer. And that's sin.

The shame that Christ faced on the cross was the fact that He was being crucified = the most heinous form of punishment in Rome. A shame to the family and friends of the one being crucified. But Jesus Christ despised that shame - not the despise that means hate, but the despise meaning disregard. It is not the same shame that we should feel when we disOBey God.

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