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End Times/Bible Prophecy

A forum for Bible prophecy, information about the rapture, tribulation, the return of Jesus Christ, ect.

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    • A further link in the article gives great scientific detail concerning the "Great Artesian Basin" and gives this conclusion. "Conclusion Certain features of the Great Artesian Basin, such as its large size, the presence of fossil footprints, minimal disturbance and erosional features, allow a reasonable classification of the structure within the biblical geologic model of Walker. The Great Artesian Basin was deposited during the upper Zenithic phase, the top of the structure in the Surat Basin area representing the top of the Zenithic phase in eastern Australia. In addition, the structure was extensively eroded during the Recessive stage, as defined by Walker’s biblical geologic model.55 As more of the geology of an area is classified within this model we will begin to appreciate the relative volumes of sediment associated with different phases and form better estimates of the time involved." Here is the link to the "Great Artesian Basin" article. https://creation.com/great-artesian-basin
    • All you've done is praise the conviction and point to some documents.  What you have not done is show any understanding of the case, nor any understanding of what I've said about the case. Unfortunately,  I believe it, because that's all some people can do.
    • We live in the age of the Internet.   Your "experience and conversations" aren't good enough.  Post links that document this tribal history. Acts 1:6 is the only New Testament passage that comes close to saying anything about restoring Israel. But, it's was a question of when Jesus was going to free the existing Jewish state from Roman occupation.  And, Jesus essentially answered it with Pentecost, a spiritual restoration of Israel, which occurred when the disciples returned to Jerusalem.  In essence, Jesus said the church was Israel. Acts 1:6b Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel [not "restore Israel"]? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.  8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost [Pentacost].... I can't reply to all of your verse references, but they all agree with me.    
    • Oh yeah, and you haven't designated the "Spiritual tribe" you are part of..... You really do have to explain what the purpose is of naming each if the twelve individual tribes. If it is symbolic (and it isn't) then what do each of the tribes symbolise? Because if they are symbolic it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE to include that section. Explain away the tribes in Rev 7.     And you still refuse to do this board the basic good manners of properly introducing yourself, which is the standard modus operandi of false teachers who come here.  
    • On both counts you are wrong. Many KJV people have done considerable study into both translation matters and manuscript matters. Comparing modern versions to the KJV can be useful, but it is not the whole matter. Secondly, I have first hand experience of conversations and been shown evidence in Israel of those who can follow the tribal history. This is legitimate, provable, evidence based fact, not your personal denial of such. (What is it with you and the whole "I'm right and you're wrong" stuff - you don't present any evidence, and have not done so as far as I can see in ANY of your posts.) As far as biblical evidence of national Israel's existence being acknowledge by God, I am glad you asked. It is not "my doctrine" that says national Israel still exists, it is God's. I would like you to respond to EVERY verse and passage listed here, with the exception of those which are clearly historical record (as marked). Here is every use of the word “Israel” that occurs in the Bible after the Resurrection of Jesus (Excluding the Gospels).   There are 46 verses. In each of these 46 verses the name of Israel is used by the writer UNDER THE MOVING of the HOLY GHOST. Not one of these uses is an incorrect usage of the name “Israel” (Because the Bible is perfect.) Act_1:6  When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? The Disciples were not rebuked by Jesus for referring to national Israel. Act_2:22  Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Act_2:36  Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. The men then standing before Peter were not saved men, but were Israelites. Many of them were saved AFTER Peter finished his preaching.   Act_3:12  And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? Again, the men being spoken to in this passage were not saved at that time, but were Israelites. Act_4:8  Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel, Act_4:10  Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. Chapter 4 was preaching before the Hebrew council, the overwhelming majority of whom were unsaved at that time. Peter twice calls them Israel, under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. Act_4:27  For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, They were praying to the Lord when they referred to national Israel specifically in this passage. Act_5:21  And when they heard that, they entered into the temple early in the morning, and taught. But the high priest came, and they that were with him, and called the council together, and all the senate of the children of Israel, and sent to the prison to have them brought. This is not referring to some kind of “Senate of saved people” but to the (Largely unsaved) senate of “the children of Israel” (There is that term....) Act_5:31  Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. This one is a reference to the purpose of Jesus, and therefore being mentioned after the death and resurrection of Jesus is not relevant to this discussion. Act_5:35  And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men. This was a man of the council referring to “the men of Israel”, and not an Apostle, so it is not directly relevant. Act_7:23  And when he was full forty years old, it came into his heart to visit his brethren the children of Israel. Act_7:37  This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. Act_7:42  Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness? The previous 3 verses are all record of the history of Israel and therefore not relevant to this discussion. Act_9:15  But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: This is GOD HIMSELF, speaking of the commission of Saul (Paul) to testify of God before the Gentiles and “the children of Israel” (There is that term again...) This is ABSOLUTELY speaking about unsaved people, and in this case it is the direct recording of the WORDS OF GOD HIMSELF. Act_10:36  The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) It could be argued that this reference is historic, but it is referring to national Israel when it uses that term (there is that term again...) Act_13:16  Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience. Act_13:17  The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an high arm brought he them out of it. Act_13:23  Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: Act_13:24  When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. This is Peter preaching to a gathering of people, and vs 16 is interesting to this discussion for it mentions “Men of Israel”... “and ye that fear God”, making a distinction between the two groups that were there present.   Act_21:28  Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place. This was a false charge against Paul, and therefore made by an unsaved man. As a result it cannot be used in this discussion. Act_28:20  For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain. The Hope of Israel is Jesus Christ, and therefore this verse is not relevant to this discussion. Rom_9:4  Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Rom_9:6  Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: These two verses have already been discussed, but the intervening verses are all directly relating to national Israel. Rom_9:27  Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: Historical reference. Rom_9:31  But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. The use of the word “Hath” which is a present tense word brings the reference into the time of the statement, therefore showing that “Israel” had not at that time attained righteousness (salvation), but that Israel was AT THAT TIME A VALID REFERENCE to the nation. Rom_10:1  Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. Clearly, if Israel was “spiritual Israel” ONLY, then this verse makes no sense. National Israel is being referenced here. Rom_10:19  But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. Historical reference. Rom_10:21  But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people. Historical reference but obviously relevant to that day also. Rom_11:1  I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. Rom_11:2  God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, In verse 1 Paul not only calls himself an Israelite, but then defines what he means by that, when he gives the lineage of his Physical birth. He is stating that physically he is an Israelite. Then is vs 2 he states that He hath not cast his people away - the physical lineage is what he is talking about not spiritual...   Rom_11:7  What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded If this is spiritual Israel, then it is saying that not all saved people are saved. Sounds like something Calvin would say...... Rom_11:25  For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Blindness in part is happened to Israel..... does this mean that some saved people are blinded? and it mentions a timeline here - until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. Part of Israel will be blind until that time....... but after that time we have the next verse. Rom_11:26  And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: So all Israel shall be saved when the fullness of the gentiles be come in. That is not yet.... so part of Israel (as distinct from the Gentiles by the way) is currently in blindness. 1Co_10:18  Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? “Israel after the flesh” “Eat of the sacrifices of the altar”...... Has to be National Israel, no other explanation makes sense. 2Co_3:7  But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: Historical reference, but there is that term again..... 2Co_3:13  And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: Historical reference, but there is that term again.....   2Co_11:22  Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I. All terms which speak about national Israel, and used in such a way as to emphasise that aspect. Gal_6:16  And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. This verse makes a distinction between the saved and “the Israel of God”, apparently asking God to give them peace and mercy. Eph_2:12  That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: Neither saved, nor citizens of the nation of Israel, and not associated with the covenants of promise (which were given to national Israel), and having no hope, and without God. The rest of the passage makes the point that it makes no difference what nation you come from, everyone has sinned and everyone needs to be saved. Php_3:5  Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Of the stock of Israel - obviously a reference to national Israel. Heb_8:8  For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: House of Israel and the house of Judah - obviously national Israel (and national Judah). Heb_8:10  For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: Context has not changed - national Israel. Heb_11:22  By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones. Historical reference. Rev_2:14  But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. Historical reference. Rev_7:4  And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. Tribes mentioned - why would God mention the individual tribes if he was speaking “symbolically”? They have no spiritual reference. Rev_21:12  And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: Why would God write the names of the twelve tribes on the gates of His Holy City if He did not consider them His people?   There are some of these that are not relevant either because they are simply an historical record, or in two cases it is an ungodly man making the reference. These men could be misusing the reference, and so it is not reasonable to use them as evidence. HOWEVER, every reference to national Israel that occurs after the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ proves that God still considers the nation of Israel to be a legitimate nation. If He did not, He would not record the nation as a nation in His Word. Along with this, there is the statement of Romans 11: Rom 11:1-2 KJV (1)  I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. (2)  God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,   Paul directly addresses this question, and no matter a person may do with the rest of the passage, Paul asks and then answers the question - emphatically God has not cast away His people which he foreknew, the physical nation which Paul references in vs 1.   The point here with all of these verses, is that God constantly and repeatedly throughout the New Testament and after the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ (which is when you say that Israel ceased to be a nation) refers to the nation of Israel in terms that indicate it is still a legitimate nation. Now, personally, I think God knows what He is talking about, and if He is happy to constantly and repeatedly refer to the nation of Israel, I am happy to accept that God recognises them as a legitimate nation. Further to this, if God uses references to the tribes, or individual tribes, on several occasions in the New Testament, then I am happy to accept that God knows who makes up those tribes that He states clearly that He is going to use TWICE in the book of Revelation. The God of the Bible is able to do that. Your god apparently cannot. And you still refuse to do this board the basic good manners of properly introducing yourself, which is the standard modus operandi of false teachers who come here.  

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