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A forum for Songs, Hymns, and Spiritual Songs. No rock or Christian rock please.

Please do not promote and "Rock" or so called "Christian Rock" in these forums.

379 topics in this forum

  1. Have You Seen This? 1 2

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  2. Free Online Radio

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  3. Bluegrass anyone? 1 2

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  4. Church Hymnals

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  5. Frank Garlock 1 2 3

    • 54 replies
  6. Your Favorite Hymns? 1 2 3

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  7. Be Blessed!

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  8. Daybreak Quartet

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  9. Like harp music?

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  10. Psalm 51

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  11. The Day the Music Died

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  12. Any suggestions?

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    • Saying not all Israel is of Israel is denying that legitimacy you claim.   
    • Let’s make this really simple so you can follow it.   Rom 9:3-8 (3)  For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:   (4)  Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; (5)  Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. (6)  Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: (7)  Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. (8)  That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.     His kinsmen according to the flesh can only be national Israel. No other option is possible. And to emphasise that fact, the Nation was adopted by God (Abraham was called from another nation), the Glory of God was revealed to the nation of Israel (To Moses, then to the nation by the plagues, deliverance from Egypt, Protection and provision in the wilderness), the Covenants were given to the Nation of Israel (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, then to the Nation as the covenant of the Law), the Nation was the ONLY NATION called to serve the Lord specifically, with Laws, rules, regulations, and commands on how to do so, and the only nation to which the promises of God were given. Then verse 5 speaks of the fathers of that nation, and that nation of whom “concerning the flesh Christ came”……. All of this is fulfilled in the Nation of Israel. Everything in verses 4 and 5 is clearly referring to the history of the nation of Israel And THEN there is the point that not all Israel is of Israel. I HAVE NEVER DENIED THAT. But if you notice, the division is then very quickly turned to refer to some of them as the children of God – this is the division WITHIN THE NATION, that there are those who are the children of the flesh (unsaved) and those who are the children of God (Saved), but the subject is ISRAEL. The point that Paul is making is that being an Israelite never saved anyone...…. The division is saved Israelites and unsaved Israelites.   And to make this ABSOLUTELY PLAIN  you said: “There no longer is a nation of Israel. Once Jesus came, ethnic Israel no longer served a function. Isaiah 65:8-9 tells us why God held off on destroying Judea, when he destroyed Israel after declaring He was not their God and they were not His people, Hosea 1:9. The nation of Israel is an impostor.  You can call a weed a rose, it doesn't make it so.    That weed is particularly noxious, very much the opposite of a rose.”     You clearly said “There no longer is a nation of Israel….. And yet Paul refers to national Israel twice in the very verses you are trying to twist. How do you reconcile your statement that “There no longer is a nation of Israel” when God clearly refers to national Israel in this very passage?       And you still have not done this board the basic common courtesy of introducing yourself in the intro section.  
    • This is a blatant and total misrepresentation of what I have said. Clearly Paul sees national Israel -his brethren according to the flesh, as legitimately Israel - he names them as such. National Israel is Biblically referred to as Israel twice in this passage. I have nowhere said that every reference to israel is "ethnic Israel"  ( in fact I have not used that term at all). But plainly God refers to national Israel as Israel after your designated timing. You are not only twisting my words, you are also twisting Scripture.
    • You say, "The Wild Branches.... are those who in spite of being born in other nations... they heard the words of Life."  You say, "The natural branches are those born to Godly Families of all nations that attend Godly churches."   So, gentile churchgoers are the natural branches and non-churchgoing Christians are the graphed on branches? You don't think the term "natural branches" implies physical descendants?  You don't think Paul referring the grafts as gentiles, implies that the natural branches are non-gentiles?  I think you're desperately to trying to make sense of a chapter that doesn't support your doctrine that Christians are not Israel. Just as when you replied to Paul saying Christians are the children of Abraham and Sarah, the line of Israel, that "Paul was admonishing them NOT to become "spiritual" Israelites! "   You're trying to make sense out of passages while denying the one reading that does make sense, leading you to argue things that makes me say "Uh?  What?"           
    • You're arguing against your false caricature of the doctrines of others.  No one said God no longer considers anyone to be Israel.   The unbelieving Isrealites were never the Israel of God and the believing Israelites are eternally the Israel of God.  You've been studiously ignoring the argument that has been presented to you, that there are two Israels one of the flesh and one of the Promise.    Not all Israel is Israel.   You define Israel as ethnic Israel, and then read that into scripture everywhere, even though Paul is clear there are two Israels.  And, Paul is clear that Christians are part of Israel.        

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